Celtic fans very bitter about Riley

Cogeur_le_Conq said:
What financial mess?

Its 2022, not 1985
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Well where to start? For the last accounts on record, which are to Jun 30 2020 -

Revenue <£20 million
Expenses >£35 million
Player Amortisation >£18 million
Gross Loss £16 million
Net Loss >£ 30 million

Accumulated losses >£206 million
Shareholder Value >£-86million

I doubt 2020/1 will be any better, given the Covid disruption.

Celtic's revenue in the last published accounting period (2020/1, one year later) was £60 million, with a loss of £11 million. The company has a positive value, and is rated as one of UEFA's top 32 teams, according to Statista. So Celtic value this guy at less than MFC, when they can afford to pay more. Maybe MFC can see something that Celtic can't, which is quite possible, or Boro might have signed the next Assombalonga. We'll see.

Lots of you are derisive of Scottish football, but football in Scotland is sustainable, whereas in England, save for a very few rich clubs, it clearly isn't. I want MFC to be around in a hundred years, but unless someone appears out of the woodwork with a billion quid to throw at the club, it's not going to be.

So, the financial mess that MFC dug for itself, and continues to dig for itself.
 
Soutra said:
It just seems a very risky prospect. Celtic are a much bigger club, playing in the Europa league. Boro are going to pay him a load of money, to outbid Celtic. If he's any good then he won't want to stay at Boro, it's easy to see he's ambitious. If he's not, then it's more money wasted.

Give the financial mess that is MFC, I think it's a huge gamble.

Good luck to him though, I hope it works out.
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Propper ray of sunshine you aren’t you.

I hope you have an electric cooker
 
As far as celtic wage offer goes its not just down to what they deem one player worth. They will have a wage structure in place and if they break the bank for an unproven 23yo regardless of how much the manager wants him and can afford it, then every contract negotiation going forward will use that as they bench mark. Plus senior players will be instantly demanding a raise to reflect their status. It opens up a can of worms and fair play to Celtic if they stick to their limits on that.
 
Soutra said:
Celtic's revenue in the last published accounting period (2020/1, one year later) was £60 million, with a loss of £11 million. The company has a positive value, and is rated as one of UEFA's top 32 teams, according to Statista. So Celtic value this guy at less than MFC, when they can afford to pay more. Maybe MFC can see something that Celtic can't, which is quite possible, or Boro might have signed the next Assombalonga. We'll see.
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regardless, celtics model is that they never pay much for players, they are 'well run', because they have no choice.

We are run at a loss because our environment is entirely different. If Celtic carried our losses and debt they wouldn't exist anymore, but that's the reality of playing in the largely irrelevant scottish league.

Here is a combined list of Celtics record transfer fees and our championship ones

15mill - Assombalonga* (Boro)
9mill - Edouarde (Celtic), Rhodes (Boro), Braithwaite* (B)
7mill - Jullien (Celtic), Saville (Boro), Downing (B 7mill after promotion bonus)
6.5m - Fletcher (B), Flint (B)
6mill Sutton (C), Hartson (C),

* Parachute assisted

Comparable spending power even when the parachute assisted players are removed.

I've cchosen transfer fee as a metric rather than wages as it's more reliable but we all know Bolasie, Downing, Rhodes, Kebano, and now Balogun were on the kind of wages that would make a Celtic Chief Finance Officer vomit
 
BoroMart said:
In my experience, making a conclusion (Celtic can blow us out of the water) based on a single statistic (revenue) will lead to an inaccurate conclusion....as we see in the case of Riley 'moneybags' McGree
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What stats - other than revenue and liquidity - would you use to determine how much a club can pay? The two are completely interlinked. No football club is is going to have revenue of £20 million and a billion in the bank.

Celtic don't want to pay whatever it is that Boro is offering, so they've given up on it. Let's not get carried away with notions that he might have always wanted to play for the Boro, or it's a lovely town, or he's always wanted to play with Paddy McNair, or red is his favourite colour. Boro has offered more money, that's the long and short of it, and he's going for it. Understandable, but is MFC in a position to be paying over the odds for anyone?
 

Celtic fans very bitter about Riley​

I'm sure they'll get over it, after all Big Sam didn't hold his grudge against him for too long
 
Soutra said:
What stats - other than revenue and liquidity - would you use to determine how much a club can pay? The two are completely interlinked. No football club is is going to have revenue of £20 million and a billion in the bank.
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Well there are historical stats about celtics spending power, which is similar to our spending power at the level we are at today.

There are stats about Celtics maximum historical revenue rather than a single point in time. No Chief Exec will make mid and long term strategic decisions based on today's revenue, they will instead factor in potential revenue growth and sustained profitability......That is their job

Celtic cannot have a revenue growth strategy beyond 20% up or down from where they are, this factors into any investment decisions and is why a club with twice our current revenue hasn't got twice our current spending power. We have a strategy that involves trying to grow our revenue by 500%, that makes investment decision less risky and is why we can compete.

Of course, sometimes those decisions fail and we have to shed assets (players) and take stock again. But where we are today, we can, compete.

The proof is in the pudding.
 
BoroMart said:
regardless, celtics model is that they never pay much for players, they are 'well run', because they have no choice.

We are run at a loss because our environment is entirely different. If Celtic carried our losses and debt they wouldn't exist anymore, but that's the reality of playing in the largely irrelevant scottish league.

Here is a combined list of Celtics record transfer fees and our championship ones

15mill - Assombalonga* (Boro)
9mill - Edouarde (Celtic), Rhodes (Boro), Braithwaite* (B)
7mill - Jullien (Celtic), Saville (Boro), Downing (B 7mill after promotion bonus)
6.5m - Fletcher (B), Flint (B)
6mill Sutton (C), Hartson (C),

* Parachute assisted

Comparable spending power even when the parachute assisted players are removed.

I've cchosen transfer fee as a metric rather than wages as it's more reliable but we all know Bolasie, Downing, Rhodes, Kebano, and now Balogun were on the kind of wages that would make a Celtic Chief Finance Officer vomit
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That's tripe.

Celtic's largest single shareholder is Dermot Desmond, current net worth greater than €2 billion.

If Dermot Desmod wanted to waste a load of money running a football club, he could waste far more than Steve Gibson.
 
BoroMart said:
Celtic cannot have a revenue growth strategy beyond 20% up or down from where they are, this factors into any investment decisions and is why a club with twice our current revenue hasn't got twice our current spending power. We have a strategy that involves trying to grow our revenue by 500%, that makes investment decision less risky and is why we can compete.
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I think you mean Boro has a target of promotion, which will increase the revenue by 500% or more. The strategy is just to gamble really - hoping that a few of the signings come good enough to hit the target. The problem comes if the target is missed.
 
Soutra said:
That's tripe.

Celtic's largest single shareholder is Dermot Desmond, current net worth greater than €2 billion.

If Dermot Desmod wanted to waste a load of money running a football club, he could waste far more than Steve Gibson.
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Which part of that is tripe? The guy isn't interested and has never been interested in running the club at a loss.....and of course without european football celtic will hit hard times, and they have UEFA FFP to stay aligned with. So in spite of his richess, it's difficult for him to pump them in more than he is.

As I said the proof is in the pudding, their manager really wanted Riley McGree, they were gazumped by a championship club without parachute payments. Now you can claim all you like about their revenue and their owners riches but the reality is they have never paid large amounts of money for or too footballers, ever, so your speculation has no evidence and plenty to contradict it.
 
BoroMart said:
Which part of that is tripe? The guy isn't interested and has never been interested in running the club at a loss.....and of course without european football celtic will hit hard times, and they have UEFA FFP to stay aligned with. So in spite of his richess, it's difficult for him to pump them in more than he is.

As I said the proof is in the pudding, their manager really wanted Riley McGree, they were gazumped by a championship club without parachute payments. Now you can claim all you like about their revenue and their owners riches but the reality is they have never paid large amounts of money for or too footballers, ever, so your speculation has no evidence and plenty to contradict it.
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Seriously every part of what you have posted over these threads is tripe.
I have to conclude you are financially illiterate.
 
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indeedido said:
Seriously every part of what you have posted over these threads is tripe.
I have to conclude you are financially illiterate.
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ah so now that the proof exists that we have financially competed, you now just want to throw micro-aggressions out. That's very sad and a sign of a failed argument. I've not thrown a single insult at you, or called your posts tripe, they're myopic, because they simply ignore lots of contrary evidence, stats and facts.

The fact that we've undeniably blown them out of the water, and this is being blamed on refusal to break their wage structure, yet we are paying an average championship wage, not making him our highest earner, and paying a modest transfer fee isn't squaring your circle.
 
BoroMart said:
ah so now that the proof exists that we have financially competed, you now just want to throw micro-aggressions out. That's very sad and a sign of a failed argument
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Mart you are either on a wind up, or are nowhere near as bright as I had previously thought.
 
The parts that are tripe are -

We are run at a loss because our environment is entirely different.
You are implying that MFC chooses to run at a loss. Clearly it runs at a loss because there's no way it'll ever be profitable outside the Prem League. What's the point of running a business at a loss (other than to overcome a few bumps in the road)? Loss making can't go on forever, sooner or later there comes a day of reckoning. Who is going to be the owner when Steve Gibson quits?

If Celtic carried our losses and debt they wouldn't exist anymore,
Celtic's biggest shareholder is far, far wealthier than Steve Gibson, so clearly the club could very easily survive with those losses, and incur far greater debts, or shareholder liabilities than MFC.

but that's the reality of playing in the largely irrelevant scottish league.
It's not irrelevant to fans of any of the Scottish league clubs.
 
Soutra said:
We are run at a loss because our environment is entirely different.
You are implying that MFC chooses to run at a loss.
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It's the old business adage of speculate to accumulate, these losses are investment. Many many business run at losses to invest in a future strategy. In fact counter intuitively some loss and some debt is often healthy. Obviously you don't want it to indefinitely persist though.

Soutra said:
If Celtic carried our losses and debt they wouldn't exist anymore,
Celtic's biggest shareholder is far, far wealthier than Steve Gibson
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It's irrelevant, they would be banned from europe if he threw silly money at them. You do realise Mel Morris is a very wealthy man, but here we are with Derby in administration. A private owner can't throw silly money. I'm sure Celtics owner could throw more if he wanted to, but he never has because it will be money down the drain. He will never be able to attract world class talent to scotland and the value of his players will always be affected by the quality of the league they play in.

Soutra said:
but that's the reality of playing in the largely irrelevant scottish league.
It's not irrelevant to fans of any of the Scottish league clubs.
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That's why I purposefully said 'largely'. Apart from a couple of million people in scotland and some loose interest around the world for the 2 big teams, it's largely irrelevant, unlike say the premier league, la liga, Ligue 1 or Budesliga. Scottish League fans are circa 1% of any of those leagues globally.
 
BoroMart said:
It's the old business adage of speculate to accumulate, these losses are investment. Many many business run at losses to invest in a future strategy. In fact counter intuitively some loss and some debt is often healthy. Obviously you don't want it to indefinitely persist though.
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Investment (noun) - the action or process of investing money for profit.

Those MFC losses are just failed "investments".

Actually, the whole business of football doesn't involve "investment", it just involves throwing money around in the hope you won't lose it all.
 
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