Forget about Hackney, RVB, McGree

Merlin said:
F***ing hell if we’re just going to sell all our best players every season we might as well just close the doors and build a garden centre or summat
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That's the reality of Championship life though. Fine margins.

If say Brentford had lost their play off final a few years ago, any sensible PL/top league club would have bought Toney & Mbeumo and they might be still down here. Fine margins.
 
He has some of the best natural fitness I’ve seen in a long time in football.

His recovery time from one big sprint to another one is unbelievable
 
SCG said:
We don’t know what’s going to happen this summer tbh, either MC is told “we’ve been saving for a while have this” or “we could get xxxx for LL/Hayden/Rav and we’ll give you this much”
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Spot on. We didn't know that Villa would be coming for Rogers after only six months at the club, with an offer we couldn't refuse. Fact of life for a Championship club pitched against the financial power of a Prem club. :(
 
AytonMews said:
Imagine if we had signed Kieffer Moore on an expensive loan in Jan… LL might still be warming the bench
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We might have also got some better results in January/February that had put us in the playoffs. Who knows?

Great that Lath is flying now and he's proving himself. Last night was another level above then previous good form he was showing.

That doesn't absolve the fact we played 8-10 games without a recognised striker and blew our season apart.
 
JimboJenkins said:
"It was only a month ago people were saying we could probably fetch our 4m back for him"
What did you mean by this then?
Who said this a month ago?
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I meant when people were doing valuations of players they were putting Latte Lath as £4m-£6m, not that they wanted him to leave.
 
changingman said:
Came on here to ask for those very numbers!

This is definitely the plan going forward, if we can increase the value of assets overall then everyone is happy (as by default it means players are performing on the pitch).

There may be some whose value stalls, or even decreases, but if the overall valuation is up, it's a very sustainable model. Over time, as our recruitment approach improves we should see fewer in the "stalls/declines" category and more in the "increases" one.

We/I've been crying out for this years - it's what almost every modern, successful club does and it's great that we're finally following suit.
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I guess the risks for failed signings will increase as we move forward, If we ignore freebees, projects, and sub 2m players, our expensive first team ready signings the last couple of years have been: Dieng 2m, Clarke 3m, Lath 4m, Azaz 2.5m, Forss 3m, McGree 2.5m. 17m any of these fail and it is a much bigger loss in asset value, but as we are a champo side, it's very difficult to get beyond about 15m if we sell these players. So the margin of error is harder. If we continue the buy low sell high model and bring in 20-25m this summer or next, we have a problem, we don't need to buy 2m players to improve, we need 5m players. The risk for those increases again, but the top end sale value doesn't. Brentford did this model and eventually spent 9m(?) on Ivan Toney. It was a huge gamble for them, it worked, but he could easily have had injury issues or not fitted the system and they'd need to offload him at half the price and take two steps backwards. That's the challenge.
 
Colin Warnek said:
15m would be accepted I'm sorry to say.
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possibly, but maybe not. We don't need money in the bank, we need maybe 3 quality players to supplement what we have. The club is under n pressure to sell, it has 8+8 from Rogers that it didn't expect, and another couple of mill from Crooks that it didn't expect. Debt is low, FFP position is fantastic, we have a strong hand for the first time since relegation.
 
BoroMart said:
I guess the risks for failed signings will increase as we move forward, If we ignore freebees, projects, and sub 2m players, our expensive first team ready signings the last couple of years have been: Dieng 2m, Clarke 3m, Lath 4m, Azaz 2.5m, Forss 3m, McGree 2.5m. 17m any of these fail and it is a much bigger loss in asset value, but as we are a champo side, it's very difficult to get beyond about 15m if we sell these players. So the margin of error is harder. If we continue the buy low sell high model and bring in 20-25m this summer or next, we have a problem, we don't need to buy 2m players to improve, we need 5m players. The risk for those increases again, but the top end sale value doesn't. Brentford did this model and eventually spent 9m(?) on Ivan Toney. It was a huge gamble for them, it worked, but he could easily have had injury issues or not fitted the system and they'd need to offload him at half the price and take two steps backwards. That's the challenge.
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Good post, well explained 👍🏻
 
The thing about selling players does need context.

Spence wasn’t a first-choice player and we cashed in on what will be the only good full season of his career.

Akpom wanted to leave and wouldn’t sign a new deal. We made around £12m on someone who was set to leave for free the summer before.

Tav wanted Premier League football. I think it was an open secret he’d been told he could go if someone came in for him. The real issue there was that the deal happened so late in the summer and we didn’t sign a replacement. Though it turns out we had one in Hackney only the manager at the time couldn’t see it.

Rogers, again, he told the club he would like to move. The club got a big fee for someone who’d expressed a desire to leave, who’d they paid a nominal amount for six months earlier.

I was disappointed that Tav, Akpom and Rogers left but there is context. The club can’t just say you’re not going anywhere because you end up annoying players and creating disharmony. The damage with Akpom was done in the two years leaving up to his departure, under Warnock, and when Ajax come knocking with a fat contract and a few million quid then he’s just never going to stay. He’s playing for money. They all are.

I’ve said for a while that this is the big summer for Boro. We’ve spent two years building a squad we pretty much own outright, all of them bar Howson a very good age and actually worth something in the transfer market, many of them with plenty of scope to improve. We must add the 4, 5, 6 quality players onto that now and really go for it next season. I think the building work is done and now we’re looking for class.

If we sell any of our ‘crown jewels’ this summer I’d be pretty disappointed tbh. This is the summer where we have the room to really go for it.
 
B_G said:
That doesn't absolve the fact we played 8-10 games without a recognised striker and blew our season apart.
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That can't be allowed to happen again. We need 3 CFs and if two are injured then a youth player that can step onto the bench (Finch and Matthews). Lath has secured the 9 slot, we need a backup, either a hot prospect 21 year old, or an old head, plus Coburn. Depends which way we want to go. But we won't allow this again I'm sure.

RB, LW and CDM are now the priority positions.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
The club can’t just say you’re not going anywhere because you end up annoying players and creating disharmony
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Especially young players that have been signed to develop.

Word will soon get around if we’re seen as standing in the way of younger players getting their big move to the prem.


If we want to hoover up the best young players we’ve got to look an attractive place to develop their career. Putting it bluntly, these players see us as a stepping stone, until we actually get promoted ourselves
 
BoroMart said:
I guess the risks for failed signings will increase as we move forward, If we ignore freebees, projects, and sub 2m players, our expensive first team ready signings the last couple of years have been: Dieng 2m, Clarke 3m, Lath 4m, Azaz 2.5m, Forss 3m, McGree 2.5m. 17m any of these fail and it is a much bigger loss in asset value, but as we are a champo side, it's very difficult to get beyond about 15m if we sell these players. So the margin of error is harder. If we continue the buy low sell high model and bring in 20-25m this summer or next, we have a problem, we don't need to buy 2m players to improve, we need 5m players. The risk for those increases again, but the top end sale value doesn't. Brentford did this model and eventually spent 9m(?) on Ivan Toney. It was a huge gamble for them, it worked, but he could easily have had injury issues or not fitted the system and they'd need to offload him at half the price and take two steps backwards. That's the challenge.
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You miss out Payero at £6m, Hoppe at £3m.
Buying £5m plus players does increase financial loss if they fail, but not sure the ceiling does not go past £15m if they fly.
We seem intent on selling what improves and relying on the cheaper replacement model.
I struggle to see how this builds a quality squad that is actually capable of going up.
There needs to be quality. Either we buy it through stunning recruitment, invest significantly more, borrow it, or give opportunity to academy fliers like Hackney.
It should surely be a mix?
 
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viv_andersons_nana said:
The thing about selling players does need context.

Spence wasn’t a first-choice player and we cashed in on what will be the only good full season of his career.

Akpom wanted to leave and wouldn’t sign a new deal. We made around £12m on someone who was set to leave for free the summer before.

Tav wanted Premier League football. I think it was an open secret he’d been told he could go if someone came in for him. The real issue there was that the deal happened so late in the summer and we didn’t sign a replacement. Though it turns out we had one in Hackney only the manager at the time couldn’t see it.

Rogers, again, he told the club he would like to move. The club got a big fee for someone who’d expressed a desire to leave, who’d they paid a nominal amount for six months earlier.

I was disappointed that Tav, Akpom and Rogers left but there is context. The club can’t just say you’re not going anywhere because you end up annoying players and creating disharmony. The damage with Akpom was done in the two years leaving up to his departure, under Warnock, and when Ajax come knocking with a fat contract and a few million quid then he’s just never going to stay. He’s playing for money. They all are.

I’ve said for a while that this is the big summer for Boro. We’ve spent two years building a squad we pretty much own outright, all of them bar Howson a very good age and actually worth something in the transfer market, many of them with plenty of scope to improve. We must add the 4, 5, 6 quality players onto that now and really go for it next season. I think the building work is done and now we’re looking for class.

If we sell any of our ‘crown jewels’ this summer I’d be pretty disappointed tbh. This is the summer where we have the room to really go for it.
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I can't dispute any of that.

At this level though, I think we will take £15m for any of our players if offered. It's too much money for a club of our level to turn down - you never know with injuries - next season a player could be worth half that.

And if that offer is from a higher level, the player will want to leave - just like Tav, Rogers and Akpom. If a PL club or similar came knocking for Latte he would want to leave too.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
The thing about selling players does need context.

Spence wasn’t a first-choice player and we cashed in on what will be the only good full season of his career.

Akpom wanted to leave and wouldn’t sign a new deal. We made around £12m on someone who was set to leave for free the summer before.

Tav wanted Premier League football. I think it was an open secret he’d been told he could go if someone came in for him. The real issue there was that the deal happened so late in the summer and we didn’t sign a replacement. Though it turns out we had one in Hackney only the manager at the time couldn’t see it.

Rogers, again, he told the club he would like to move. The club got a big fee for someone who’d expressed a desire to leave, who’d they paid a nominal amount for six months earlier.

I was disappointed that Tav, Akpom and Rogers left but there is context. The club can’t just say you’re not going anywhere because you end up annoying players and creating disharmony. The damage with Akpom was done in the two years leaving up to his departure, under Warnock, and when Ajax come knocking with a fat contract and a few million quid then he’s just never going to stay. He’s playing for money. They all are.

I’ve said for a while that this is the big summer for Boro. We’ve spent two years building a squad we pretty much own outright, all of them bar Howson a very good age and actually worth something in the transfer market, many of them with plenty of scope to improve. We must add the 4, 5, 6 quality players onto that now and really go for it next season. I think the building work is done and now we’re looking for class.

If we sell any of our ‘crown jewels’ this summer I’d be pretty disappointed tbh. This is the summer where we have the room to really go for it.
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agreed the core of the first XI is there

GK - Dieng is championship A-quality
RB - Smith is a B (assuming he is fit and back to previous form)
CB - Rav is an B+ ; Clarke, Lenihan, Fry are all B-
LB - Engel is B-, Bangura too few minutes to tell
CM - Hackney and Howson are B; Barlaser is a C
RW - Jones/Forss are B
LW - McGree is a B-; Silvera D
10 - Azaz B-, Gilbert (too few mins to tell)
CF - Lath is A; Coburn is C+

If everyone is a B we are borderline for the play offs. If you have a couple of Cs you probably need a couple of As....we've got As in two of the best positions CF and GK.

If Ayling signs he is a B+

I think a LW may now be our priority this summer, if we are honest McGree has barely played and Greenwood and Silvera have largely been passengers. We need a constant goal/assist threat on that side.

After that, we cannot rely on Barlaser as a CM in Carricks tactics, so someone to compete with Howson would be next most important

Third biggest option is to get a third CF

We don't need a lot more beyond that to be play off shoe ins and promotion outsiders.
 
BoroMart said:
possibly, but maybe not. We don't need money in the bank, we need maybe 3 quality players to supplement what we have. The club is under n pressure to sell, it has 8+8 from Rogers that it didn't expect, and another couple of mill from Crooks that it didn't expect. Debt is low, FFP position is fantastic, we have a strong hand for the first time since relegation.
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Recent experience suggests we take 15m for any player if it is offered from a higher level (which it more than likely would be).
 
Colin Warnek said:
Recent experience suggests we take 15m for any player if it is offered from a higher level (which it more than likely would be).
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that was at a time when we were trying to reduce debt, and increase FFP, there comes a point where FFP allowance allows us to invest and further sales even above and beyond value, don't actually do anything positive for the club. Remember Gibson owns the club and takes no money out, and hasn't stopped putting what he is allowed in. Profit for the sake of profit is of no value to the club or owner
 
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