Boro`s £24m estimated 5-year player sale loss compared to rest of Championship [Mail]

rbmfc1985

Active member
True, but the wages will have eaten most if not all of that....and then some. But what happens 5 years ago is irrelevant from FFP anyway. It's a 3 year rolling window.

So at the end of this season when they tot up:
21/22 0 parachute payments
20/21 15mill pp
19/20 34mill pp

So that 49mill will offset some of the losses, but they've made huge losses in those 3 years. They lost 91.6mill in 20-21 alone. Although they've tried to right some off by devaluing their playing staff.....which they claim keeps them FFP clean, but that is accounting jiggery-pokery, and they may already be failing FFP, if not no promotion this season and they will be screwed, because they'll be facing that 34mill pp disappearing and massive debts. It's all or nothing for them now, and they have shown zero desire to change from that tactic.
The above numbers are based on 5 years of transfers, which is why I mentioned 5 years. They haven't lost £95m on transfer fees since being in the Championship. And they have already moved some big earners off the books this year.

Yes, they could be in trouble from an FFP standpoint, but Derby's plight is far beyond just FFP, they have the sort of problem that FFP was brought in to avoid. Stoke might get an embargo or points deduction for FFP but they won't be falling into debt or going into administration, their owners are too rich for that to happen.
 

BoroMart

Well-known member
The above numbers are based on 5 years of transfers, which is why I mentioned 5 years. They haven't lost £95m on transfer fees since being in the Championship. And they have already moved some big earners off the books this year.

Yes, they could be in trouble from an FFP standpoint, but Derby's plight is far beyond just FFP, they have the sort of problem that FFP was brought in to avoid. Stoke might get an embargo or points deduction for FFP but they won't be falling into debt or going into administration, their owners are too rich for that to happen.
they're already massively in debt, it's the administration that won't happen
 

indeedido

Well-known member
Stoke are in no financial plight with the Coates family to back them from Bet365 - the world's biggest online betting company and the woman who has paid more tax than ANYBODY in the UK for years.

BUT they simply have to be in breach of FFP when they have lost close to £140m in the last 3 published years of accounts and injected zero equity.
I'm sick of going on about it, but their approach to amortisation and writing off all book value of players under contract is sick. Cynical and scandalous and far more in breach of FFP than any other club.
 

JM14

Well-known member
What a mess those at the top of this club have caused time after time. Really are shocking figures
 

BoroMart

Well-known member
Yup we have purchased totally the wrong players, on massive contracts at inflated prices. The Monk summer of splunking money really harmed the club.

But, it could have been worse. Derby did the overpay for poor players thing, rather than reset, they doubled down, then doubled down again and tried to hide it through criminal accounting. At least Gibson accepted we had ballsed up and tightened the purse strings.

Now he has seemingly accepted that the club needs a proper expert at recruitment and hopefully we will improve dramatically in this area.

Just looking at Norwich they managed to get promoted twice while making large profits 27mill profit last time, and 28mill the time before.
 
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indeedido

Well-known member
Yup we have purchased totally the wrong players, on massive contracts at inflated prices. The Monk summer of splunking money really harmed the club.

But, it could have been worse. Derby did the overpay for poor players thing, rather than reset, they doubled down, then doubled down again and tried to hide it through criminal accounting. At least Gibson accepted we had ballsed up and tightened the purse strings.

Now he has seemingly accepted that the club needs a proper expert at recruitment and hopefully we will improve dramatically in this area.

Just looking at Norwich they managed to get promoted twice while making large profits 27mill profit last time, and 28mill the time before.
Norwich have no rich ownership structure and leverage very little equity.
(Unlike us) they do have a positive shareholder value, consistently have full houses whatever league and have long had over 20k season ticket holders.

Their secret is recruiting and developing players who they trade at the right time which keeps them in the top 26 of English football.

They have been significantly better run than our club (and many others) since our relegation in 2009.

Yes there are lots of other well run clubs, well run in different ways. Clubs who have wealthy owners who are willing to pump equity into the club and retain profits in reserves rather than pay themselves dividends. Ownership really matters, as does operational competence.
Clubs who consistently lose lots of money, don't get equity injections from owners, then need loans from shareholders that leave the club with negative nett value and they become unsaleable.
 

Otto42

Well-known member
Strange that we bet the house on getting promoted in 2017/18, but sold our best players in 2009 when we came down. At least we seem to be looking more long term behind the scenes.
 

Lottowyn

Well-known member
Buying Brit A from Forest and selling future England international Bamford for about half of that amount shows the standard of Boro's dealing is not exactly top drawer.
 

BoroMart

Well-known member
Norwich have no rich ownership structure and leverage very little equity.
(Unlike us) they do have a positive shareholder value, consistently have full houses whatever league and have long had over 20k season ticket holders.

Their secret is recruiting and developing players who they trade at the right time which keeps them in the top 26 of English football.

They have been significantly better run than our club (and many others) since our relegation in 2009
On a crowd basis we have greater positive and negative swings but ultimately have a similar size fanbase, the last decade they have done very well on this front, we haven't. The 15 years before that we were way ahead of them 30k+ while they languished with crowds dipping to 14k.

With a fair wind of success, a bit more attack minded football, more goal oriented than clean sheet oriented, I think our crowds and income will exceed theirs again. But as you highlight, we need to be run better behind the scenes. Invest better, know when to buy and when to sell.

We have really had a lost decade, where we have return to a level of our pre-Gibson days. The riverside boom and UEFA cup was 15 years ago now. 25 year olds can barely remember it. Let's hope that the new structure in the club can yield a positive forward thinking environment and success again
 
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