Labour 10 points ahead of Tories...

gizasqueezemister said:
'People are thick'.. and there you have it. Telling people they are 'thick' for not voting labour because they have the temerity to ask to see policies, or how they are going to be paid for. This is not the way to turn traditional labour voting towns red again. This strategy is in itself 'thick' by definition.
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You can see his frustration though? I don't think thick is the right word. I would use ignorant. It's the only reason to still support this brand of Tory. You must be ignorant of the corruption, ignorant of the lies, ignorant of the attempts to reduce our rights, ignorant of the attempts to make it harder to vote them out.
 
SmallTown said:
You can see his frustration though? I don't think thick is the right word. I would use ignorant. It's the only reason to still support this brand of Tory. You must be ignorant of the corruption, ignorant of the lies, ignorant of the attempts to reduce our rights, ignorant of the attempts to make it harder to vote them out.
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I hear you, but I also get frustrated with people who always vote tory because my dad did, and his dad etc. etc. and likewise labour. Always have always will regardless, as the alternative is unthinkable. There is a huge chunk of floating voters that need to be convinced, and that needs to be a bit more than just 'cos the other side are corrupt/liars/****. The mood music does suggest people are ready for change, and not just a change of tory leader. Real change. But despite the current polling the biggest mistake labour can make is to take votes for granted. The floaters want to see leadership. This is absolutely critical. Not revealing policies incase people don't like them or the tories might steal them (as suggested on here) is absolutely not showing leadership. If you are labour for life though I guess you probably wouldn't see this.
 
SmallTown said:
You can see his frustration though? I don't think thick is the right word. I would use ignorant. It's the only reason to still support this brand of Tory. You must be ignorant of the corruption, ignorant of the lies, ignorant of the attempts to reduce our rights, ignorant of the attempts to make it harder to vote them out.
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Elections aren't won by blaming the electorate for the way they voted before or calling them thick or ignorant. Voters make up their minds based on a few things that seem important (and important not just to the person marking the x). If Labour doesn't make policies to appeal to enough people, and the perception of the common good, then people won't vote for them.
 
gizasqueezemister said:
I hear you, but I also get frustrated with people who always vote tory because my dad did, and his dad etc. etc. and likewise labour. Always have always will regardless, as the alternative is unthinkable. There is a huge chunk of floating voters that need to be convinced, and that needs to be a bit more than just 'cos the other side are corrupt/liars/****. The mood music does suggest people are ready for change, and not just a change of tory leader. Real change. But despite the current polling the biggest mistake labour can make is to take votes for granted. The floaters want to see leadership. This is absolutely critical. Not revealing policies incase people don't like them or the tories might steal them (as suggested on here) is absolutely not showing leadership. If you are labour for life though I guess you probably wouldn't see this.
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The current Tory Government with its sleaze, corruption and lies is the biggest ****-show for many a year and is doing them significant harm.

Why on earth would Labour suddenly switch their focus on to policy and effectively let Johnson off the hook?

There's a time and a place for that but it isn't now.
 
BoroFur said:
The current Tory Government with its sleaze, corruption and lies is the biggest ****-show for many a year and is doing them significant harm.

Why on earth would Labour suddenly switch their focus on to policy and effectively let Johnson off the hook?

There's a time and a place for that but it isn't now.
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Dead simple. Leadership. At a time when the country is lacking any. And perhaps the biggest question mark over the labour party from the media and non die hard reds. Show the electorate a real alternative option. Do it now and people will remember it. Wait and the Tories will enjoy a new leader bounce in the polls and come election time the **** show stuff that you refer to risks being forgotten. Initiative lost. Complacency is labours biggest barrier to No. 10 right now. Theirs to lose as they say (I won't use my open goal analogy again it seemed to upset people).
 
gizasqueezemister said:
'People are thick'.. and there you have it. Telling people they are 'thick' for not voting labour because they have the temerity to ask to see policies, or how they are going to be paid for. This is not the way to turn traditional labour voting towns red again. This strategy is in itself 'thick' by definition.
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Nah, I was referring to brexit cult.
 
There's a YouGov poll not yet published showing Labour holds a 32 point lead over the Conservatives in London.
 
gizasqueezemister said:
Dead simple. Leadership. At a time when the country is lacking any. And perhaps the biggest question mark over the labour party from the media and non die hard reds. Show the electorate a real alternative option. Do it now and people will remember it. Wait and the Tories will enjoy a new leader bounce in the polls and come election time the **** show stuff that you refer to risks being forgotten. Initiative lost. Complacency is labours biggest barrier to No. 10 right now. Theirs to lose as they say (I won't use my open goal analogy again it seemed to upset people).
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You are absolutely right. Allowing the tories to implode helps Labour but it won't be enough on its own. Starmer has already started to form policies with his promise to the people. The party will harden those this year and push 2 or 3 that they feel most people can identify with.

To get elected you have to appear like a government in waiting. A party ready to lead with policies that appeal to people, usually on a personal level.

All this let the tories destroy themselves is nonsense. It helps, of course, but if you are not seen as a party that can govern you have no chance.
 
gizasqueezemister said:
Dead simple. Leadership. At a time when the country is lacking any. And perhaps the biggest question mark over the labour party from the media and non die hard reds. Show the electorate a real alternative option. Do it now and people will remember it. Wait and the Tories will enjoy a new leader bounce in the polls and come election time the **** show stuff that you refer to risks being forgotten. Initiative lost. Complacency is labours biggest barrier to No. 10 right now. Theirs to lose as they say (I won't use my open goal analogy again it seemed to upset people).
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I don't see any complacency at all from Labour. In fact I see them as being on the front foot. The leader of the opposition leads his own party, he can't lead the country yet. Yes they're only opinion polls but no party polls over 40% regularly unless those participating see something positive in the party, the leader and his/her policies. For anyone to suggest that Labour's current polling is entirely a consequence of people's mistrust of the Tories is not giving Labour enough credit in my opinion.

Labour put up Jonathan Reynolds the Shadow Business Secretary for broadcast interviews this morning and he performed very well. He stressed that the current ****-show is a distraction and he wanted to talk about how Labour propose to take folk out of fuel poverty in part using a one off windfall tax on those companies currently making a fortune out of high energy prices.

And just from a personal point of view, yes I'm one of those 'die-hard reds' you peer down your nose at but I am also intelligent enough to consider all options when it comes to electing those who serve us. The fact that I have always chosen Labour isn't for you to criticise me or others who follow the same logic, and there are many others similar to me.

I often see political posts on this board from seemingly left leaning people and I have to think are they really Labour supporters because they seem to criticise at every opportunity even when most fair-minded observers would conclude there's nothing to criticise here 🤔
 
The Tories have no unity candidate to replace Johnson, it will be carnage with whoever replaces him either fighting the ERG, more moderate MP's and those who were loyal to Johnson.

Then there will be Johnson himself, he will never walk away from number 10 and stay silent, he'll have stories to sell.

The only reason he's lasted this long is that all the Tory MP's know it will be full scale civil war.
 
Soutra said:
Elections aren't won by blaming the electorate for the way they voted before or calling them thick or ignorant. Voters make up their minds based on a few things that seem important (and important not just to the person marking the x). If Labour doesn't make policies to appeal to enough people, and the perception of the common good, then people won't vote for them.
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I'm pretty sure @GazC_MFC isn't actually a politician trying to get elected?

The simple fact is: people who can still support this government, after everyone that has gone must be either thick or ignorant. Why would you want to support a group of people who openly laugh at you, abuse you, make you more poor, remover your rights to give themselves more power. That HAS to be stupid or ignorant.
 
The red wall mp’s are losing their doo-dah. 10% across the board for Labour in their seats. If that held for a GE, it would mean about 45 of those seats would go. There’s a squeeze going on in the South East for certain Tory seats. Johnson would be danger of losing his seat. Now that Brexit is done and becoming obvious that it not what was promised and nobody seems to have plan to fix it…..because it can’t be. The oven ready deal blocks all exits, without compromise, and invoking Article 16 would kill of what we have. Putting us in the unique position of having something worse than nothing than the nothing the oven ready deal delivered.
 
Calling people thick, ignorant, feckless, workshy, drunken layabouts didn't and hasn't done the Tories any harm. Johnson has done it in the past. So have the 5 authors of Britannia Unchained, all of them current Government Ministers. I know other factors play and have played a part in how people voted, but I do find it bizarre that Emily Thornberry can be lambasted for her white van man comments, yet the very same people either forgive or forget being called by our wonderful government.
 
SmallTown said:
You can see his frustration though? I don't think thick is the right word. I would use ignorant. It's the only reason to still support this brand of Tory. You must be ignorant of the corruption, ignorant of the lies, ignorant of the attempts to reduce our rights, ignorant of the attempts to make it harder to vote them out.
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What about people who voted them in 2019 after proroguing parliament? When they had a leader who had arranged to get a journalist beaten up, and he was promising oven ready brexit? When they had been talking about id cards and redrawing constituencies for years?
 
SuperStu said:
What about people who voted them in 2019 after proroguing parliament? When they had a leader who had arranged to get a journalist beaten up, and he was promising oven ready brexit? When they had been talking about id cards and redrawing constituencies for years?
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Their 2019 manifesto had everything in it that is being pushed through parliament. Nothing the government are doing was hidden.
 
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