ThatFragranceGuy
Well-known member
Appeal denied
New Yorker banned article on Lucy Letby
- Thread starter Legz
- Start date
Cardiffdaffs
Well-known member
Yep not surprising
Not quite - there was no appeal even filed. What happened was that she was denied leave to appeal in the first place.
Lucy Letby denied permission to appeal
ThatFragranceGuy
Well-known member
I didn't say she had lost the appeal, I said appeal denied. your article basically says the same thing.
First time I've read this. It is an interesting read and leaves me a lot less certain about how I thought about the case. I was convinced by the documentary and the news reporting and it's hard to think back to what was so convincing now. It is easy to get sucked into a one-sided convincing piece like this and it doesn't mean she didn't do it. The same could be said for the criminal proceedings and documentaries though.
It makes me wonder how you can have such a long trial and the defence not be better. If she is innocent they have not done a good job of presenting the doubt around things that the article contains.
I do remember the original trial had me thinking she had done something, got away with it and kept doing it and maybe she had. The condition of the babies is so delicate that a little nudge can be enough to tip the scales. From what I have seen of serial killers it is that "power" that is the motivating factor so if that is what has happened here then it "fits".
I definitely feel less confident that justice has been done now. Makes me feel uneasy.
It makes me wonder how you can have such a long trial and the defence not be better. If she is innocent they have not done a good job of presenting the doubt around things that the article contains.
I do remember the original trial had me thinking she had done something, got away with it and kept doing it and maybe she had. The condition of the babies is so delicate that a little nudge can be enough to tip the scales. From what I have seen of serial killers it is that "power" that is the motivating factor so if that is what has happened here then it "fits".
I definitely feel less confident that justice has been done now. Makes me feel uneasy.
1finny
Well-known member
Is that it then or can she go higher?
Yes, but it's wrong to characterise it as "appeal denied" when no appeal was submitted.
Imagine if a Boro player had been given a yellow card, and the club asked whether they could appeal the card. However, the FA responded that no such appeal would be allowed. Would it then be accurate to say their appeal against the yellow card was denied?
No, it wouldn't, because they never even had the chance to submit an appeal in the first place.
Same principle.
1finny
Well-known member
Thanks
Was talking to an NHS consultant about this case last week.
He’d been on a ‘Whistlblowing’ conference.
He was telling me a lot of people there were uneasy with the Letby case and did feel the was ‘institutional’ pressure to nail her.
Suppose we won’t know for sure now
ThatFragranceGuy
Well-known member
I haven't charecterised it as anything, I said appeal denied - she has been denied an appeal. I didn't say she submitted an appeal. Nearly every headline about it has the same language.
Tryasize10
Well-known member
No idea on her guilt or innocence but the whole thing just doesn't feel right.
iamborome
Well-known member
Difficult to to get a full picture without access to the trial transcripts, but this is an interesting analysis:
www.scienceontrial.com
The Lucy Letby Case | Science on Trial
www.scienceontrial.com
RenzoRosso
Well-known member
ECHR might be her next option?
Laughing
Well-known member
I would imagine plenty of people feel the same. I want entirely comfortable after the verdict. The case seemed to be based around liklihood based on shift patterns. That proves opportunity. Unfortunately everybody working with the babies had means. They are 2 of the things that need to be demonstrated. Jury's often want motive but that isn't required. As humans we are programmed to ask why?
It would be interesting to be able to poll the jury and see how they feel now about the verdict. Given they sat through the evidence.
BobUpnDown
Well-known member
isn't that the guilty verdict they gave? they sat through the longest murder trial in UK history - they have had the evidence presented to them & made their decision - including, not guilty on a couple of counts..
Nurse Lucy Letby guilty of murdering seven babies on neonatal unit
The 33-year-old is convicted of killing babies at the hospital neonatal unit where she worked.
www.bbc.co.uk
"..Letby, originally from Hereford, was found not guilty of two counts of attempted murder.
The jury was unable to reach verdicts on six further attempted murder charges..."
What I learned about Lucy Letby after 10 months in court
The nurse was questioned for nearly 60 hours - the BBC's Judith Moritz watched it all.
www.bbc.co.uk
"The only way I'd ever believe that she's guilty is if she tells me she's guilty," she said.
I was struck by Dawn's certainty, but my own mind was far less settled. Like Dawn, I needed to hear directly from the nurse herself.
Lucy Letby denied permission for baby murders convictions appeal
The 34-year-old was given 14 whole life terms last year after being found guilty of murdering babies.
www.bbc.co.uk
Dame Victoria said: "Having heard her application, we have decided to refuse leave to appeal on all grounds and refuse all associated applications.
"A full judgment will be handed down in due course."
The 34-year-old will face a retrial at Manchester Crown Court in June on a single count that she attempted to murder a baby girl, known as Child K, in February 2016.
Laughing
Well-known member
Given that not all evidence may have been presented,the juries opinion may have changed since the trial.isn't that the guilty verdict they gave? they sat through the longest murder trial in UK history - they have had the evidence presented to them & made their decision - including, not guilty on a couple of counts..
Nurse Lucy Letby guilty of murdering seven babies on neonatal unit
The 33-year-old is convicted of killing babies at the hospital neonatal unit where she worked.www.bbc.co.uk
"..Letby, originally from Hereford, was found not guilty of two counts of attempted murder.
The jury was unable to reach verdicts on six further attempted murder charges..."
What I learned about Lucy Letby after 10 months in court
The nurse was questioned for nearly 60 hours - the BBC's Judith Moritz watched it all.www.bbc.co.uk
"The only way I'd ever believe that she's guilty is if she tells me she's guilty," she said.
I was struck by Dawn's certainty, but my own mind was far less settled. Like Dawn, I needed to hear directly from the nurse herself.
Lucy Letby denied permission for baby murders convictions appeal
The 34-year-old was given 14 whole life terms last year after being found guilty of murdering babies.www.bbc.co.uk
Dame Victoria said: "Having heard her application, we have decided to refuse leave to appeal on all grounds and refuse all associated applications.
"A full judgment will be handed down in due course."
The 34-year-old will face a retrial at Manchester Crown Court in June on a single count that she attempted to murder a baby girl, known as Child K, in February 2016.
1finny
Well-known member
BobUpnDown
Well-known member
Guilty for me 10 months of evidence, provided & challenged..
ThatFragranceGuy
Well-known member
But it wasn't challenged, that's the point. And the main evidence against her was the shift pattern, which was wrong, and her notes.
Defence didn't call hardly any witnesses, and there were plenty to choose from.
