The best ever football player in the world?

Nottyboy said:
Well first thing you can't make the judgement on trophies won. Good as one player may be he can't do it all on his own so it depends on the team he is in. It should be primarily judged on footballing skills and ability. Otherwise Steve Bruce for example ( 3 Premier Leagues, 3 FA Cups a League Cup and European Cup Winners Cup) would be a far superior player to Matt Le Tissier( who won nothing) which is obviously nonsense. The Argentinian team Maradonna played in was relatively more competitive in World Football than the one Messi has played in hence he has as yet no World Cup Winners medal.

It's also very difficult to judge players from different generations. The modern game is much quicker, the art of defending much stronger, players fitness levels are higher etc. than in Pele's day. That is not to say that if Pele was playing now he wouldn't be as good. He probably would - you adapt to the conditions of your time.

All of the players mentioned in this thread are truly great players. I am old enough to have watched the great Brazil team of 1970 with Pele in it. I have enjoyed watching all of them over the years however in my opinion Messi is the GOAT.
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The generational thing isn't highlighted enough.
Each progressive generation is levels above with regards to fitness, IMO there'd be no competition if a world class team from now played a world class team from 50 years previous.
 
Always with the numbers. If you want to wänk on about numbers, buy some log tables and lock yourself in the bathroom.

How about some memories? Not old enough to appreciate Pele other than on replays, but no-one's ever topped Maradona for me. Frequently wanting him to be on the losing side in matches I watched, but that feeling of never wanting him to get the ball because of what he might do, and the inevitability of what was happening when he did get it - that's what I remember. And nothing worked - double team him, triple team him, kick him. Just too good for whatever dark arts got thrown at him.

Of the current crop. would go with Messi, the way he drifts about and then turns on something magical - it's like he's playing in cheat mode. Cristiano Ronaldo does nothing for me - can admire the dedication and longevity, but I have zero memories of moments that have had me out of my seat. Brazilian Ronaldo the exact opposite, an absolute joy to watch - if he'd had better luck it wouldn't even be a debate.
 
I think it was great to be able to watch Ronaldo towards the end of his PL career, aside from when he was playing us and I was cheering on Morrison and Pog.
For some reason I tend to prefer watching explosive players that combine athleticism with skill, and so far for me he's been the prime example of that, though I understand why people prefer the more traditional more talented footballer type.
 
Chutney said:
Of the current crop. would go with Messi, the way he drifts about and then turns on something magical - it's like he's playing in cheat mode. Cristiano Ronaldo does nothing for me - can admire the dedication and longevity, but I have zero memories of moments that have had me out of my seat. Brazilian Ronaldo the exact opposite, an absolute joy to watch - if he'd had better luck it wouldn't even be a debate.
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I'm a bit too young to have seen anything of Maradona (and definitely too young to see Pele or the other former greats) so for me the best players in my lifetime have been Ronaldo (the real one) then Ronaldinho and then Messi (chronologically, not ability). Ronaldo was clearly the best player in the world at the time even with all the injuries. I would have loved to have seen how good he could have been if he hadn't had them. They were terrible injuries as well so to come back and still be the best player in the world was phenomenal itself. As the best player at World Cup 98 he had a seizure before the final, if he hadn't they might have won that final. He should never have played and it must have messed with the prep for the team as a whole so they got battered. He then missed the majority of the next 4 seasons when he should have been at his peak. He was the same age then as Haaland is now. Imagine him or Mbappe just not playing for the next 4 years.

Ronaldinho replaced him as the leading star in Brazil and got Barcelona back to the top of European football. He was a magician and just did special things all the time. Having someone like Ronaldinho must have massively helped Messi because there was no pressure on Messi to carry the team while he was still developing. His peak was short-lived though and that seemed to be dedication and lifestyle. Maradona and Best were lucky that they could have that lifestyle because they were playing against footballers that had a similar lifestyle while Ronaldinho was playing against athletes so the drop was too noticeable at that level.

Messi is just supremely talented and has the attitude to be at the top of the game for decades. C Ronaldo has the same dedication and I think his presence has made Messi better but he's just nowhere near Messi for talent.

It's hard to compare across generations but I think if you put Messi in Maradona's generation he would have been the best. If you put Maradona in Messi's generation then Maradona would have been a short-lived shining light like Ronaldinho because of his lifestyle. Who knows with Pele. He seems to get forgotten about because there are fewer people that remember seeing him. Even the people that do remember him will only be from the odd snippets at World Cups because it's not like all of his matches were on TV like they are these days.

I also think it's a bit mad how International football is the yardstick we use to measure the greats. It's knockout football so the best team doesn't always win. There are only 4 or 5 opportunities across an entire career to play at one and you have to be lucky enough to be from a country that has a team good enough to compete deep in international tournaments. If Haaland's goal scoring continues across his career is he just omitted from the conversation because he's never won a World Cup (assuming Norway don't discover another handful of wonderkids at the same time)?
 
Nano said:
I'm a bit too young to have seen anything of Maradona (and definitely too young to see Pele or the other former greats) so for me the best players in my lifetime have been Ronaldo (the real one) then Ronaldinho and then Messi (chronologically, not ability). Ronaldo was clearly the best player in the world at the time even with all the injuries. I would have loved to have seen how good he could have been if he hadn't had them. They were terrible injuries as well so to come back and still be the best player in the world was phenomenal itself. As the best player at World Cup 98 he had a seizure before the final, if he hadn't they might have won that final. He should never have played and it must have messed with the prep for the team as a whole so they got battered. He then missed the majority of the next 4 seasons when he should have been at his peak. He was the same age then as Haaland is now. Imagine him or Mbappe just not playing for the next 4 years.

Ronaldinho replaced him as the leading star in Brazil and got Barcelona back to the top of European football. He was a magician and just did special things all the time. Having someone like Ronaldinho must have massively helped Messi because there was no pressure on Messi to carry the team while he was still developing. His peak was short-lived though and that seemed to be dedication and lifestyle. Maradona and Best were lucky that they could have that lifestyle because they were playing against footballers that had a similar lifestyle while Ronaldinho was playing against athletes so the drop was too noticeable at that level.

Messi is just supremely talented and has the attitude to be at the top of the game for decades. C Ronaldo has the same dedication and I think his presence has made Messi better but he's just nowhere near Messi for talent.

It's hard to compare across generations but I think if you put Messi in Maradona's generation he would have been the best. If you put Maradona in Messi's generation then Maradona would have been a short-lived shining light like Ronaldinho because of his lifestyle. Who knows with Pele. He seems to get forgotten about because there are fewer people that remember seeing him. Even the people that do remember him will only be from the odd snippets at World Cups because it's not like all of his matches were on TV like they are these days.

I also think it's a bit mad how International football is the yardstick we use to measure the greats. It's knockout football so the best team doesn't always win. There are only 4 or 5 opportunities across an entire career to play at one and you have to be lucky enough to be from a country that has a team good enough to compete deep in international tournaments. If Haaland's goal scoring continues across his career is he just omitted from the conversation because he's never won a World Cup (assuming Norway don't discover another handful of wonderkids at the same time)?
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Agree with all of that. And if I were to casually lob Lewandowski's name into the final paragraph it would still make total sense.
 
I would go with Messi but I’d have liked to have seen him test himself in the Premier League, in his pomp. He’s scored a lot of goals against some shabby opposition in Spain.

Maradona second.

My Grandad, lifelong Man Utd season ticket holder reckoned Duncan Edwards was the best player he ever saw, obviously didn’t play many games but he said he was better than George Best.
 
Smog On The Medway said:
I would go with Messi but I’d have liked to have seen him test himself in the Premier League, in his pomp. He’s scored a lot of goals against some shabby opposition in Spain.
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He's played against the best English teams in the Champions League 36 times, scoring 27 goals.

I think he'd have managed against Norwich.

Would have been something I'd love to have watched though.
 
Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants said:
The only player i’d purposely pay to watch would be Ronaldinho. For 3-4 years he was sublime, playing with a smile on his face, doing things with a ball you’d never seen before.

I’d also say Gazza before his knee injury was about to become the best player in the world. He was naturally phenomenal.
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Agree about this. I once did pay to watch him in 2007 but he got a late injury, so they stuck Messi in instead. He scored two but I was gutted I didn't see Ronaldinho live :ROFLMAO:
 
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