YouGov Poll - 33 Point lead!

[HolgateCorner]

Yeah I think that's what one of the main problems has been, loads of Tory's voted Tory and loads of LEavers voted Tory, so the result of that was 365 seats and them thinking they could do what they liked, and the far right driving the ship. No wonder it's ended up in probably the biggest cluster **** I've ever known since being able to vote.

Sunak knows he's beat, so is just trying to bluff his way through the hand and hope he hits gold somehow later down the line, but it's unlikely. He'll gradually distance himself from those who have helped create this mess, probably more so after 2025 if he can stay as Tory leader. It will be easier for him then too, as most of them will lose their seats, or face a challenge. Sunak's not as bad as the rest of them, but that's not praise, it just means he's less bad, and he's nothing like the common man, or 99.9% of voters. Wouldn't be surprised if he does a few things which will make Labour's job harder for the next term, his eyes will probably be on 2030, but they'll probably kick him out by then.

He could end up being Tory leader for the biggest kicking they've every had, and having that happen to him as PM, crazy. 95% of that damage is caused by those around him and those preceding him I think, but he seemingly didn't do much to stop it either.

I think he‘s trapped. They didn’t want him, they voted for Truss and the IMF no doubt told the 1922 that she had to go straight away.

No sympathy for Rishi though half the problems are his own from the lockdown cash splash.

 

[Andy_W]

I think he‘s trapped. They didn’t want him, they voted for Truss and the IMF no doubt told the 1922 that she had to go straight away.

No sympathy for Rishi though half the problems are his own from the lockdown cash splash.

Yeah, for sure, he's 100% trapped, all of the Tories are in a way, and it's an unwinnable hand from here, they're in the deepest of holes, which they collectively dug in an unsafe manner.

The only way to possibly climb out of the hole is to use the ladder (much closer EU ties, allowing freedom of movement etc, to boost the economy), but 3/4 of his party would rather saw the ladder in half if he tried to climb it.

I think the furlough system was the right thing to do, or a version of it, but maybe we could have got better value. Who knows, it's a tough one, and I've not thought back much about that retrospectively, as it never really impacted my trade/ business/ sector (construction/ utilities). It did help keep other businesses afloat, and with trained staff to return to them.

Don't really blame them for track and trace, it was necessary but we got robbed on the price. Same with the PPE, don't mind them buying that from wherever they could get their hands on it, and any which was found short of healthcare spec should have been handed out FOC with a disclaimer. They shouldn't have been giving contracts to their mates though, who were not PPE companies, they should have tried to recover the costs on that, or people should have been held responsible. I understand that they were acting quickly mind, and under major pressure, which should give some leeway, but nowhere near what leeway they came out with.

 

[festa5]

If the party fractures it will be a generation before the conservatives get voted in again. The Erg have, effectively destroyed the party. I don't care for the conservatives policies but with fptp you really need a realistic opposition otherwise the party in power can do what it likes.

I am not sure what sunaks game is here. Just to say he was pm I suppose. I can't see how they can be turned around whilst they are beholden to the erg.

Well my preferred solution would be to bin off FPTP.

But failing that, agree you need a realistic opposition but there's nothing "realistic" about the Tories in their current form (I know it's not how you meant it).

Wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to see the Tories in their current guise utterly destroyed as long as what replaces them is more grown up and competent.

A party that would give us proper grown up debate in our politics as opposed to the pathetic playground stuff we have to tolerate most of the time now.

Lib Dems maybe not to the right enough to plug the gap? Would like to see them as a strong opposition but probably won't be able to pick up enough non labour voters.

 

[Chris_Boro]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1618361272268988421

 

[Laughing]

Well my preferred solution would be to bin off FPTP.

But failing that, agree you need a realistic opposition but there's nothing "realistic" about the Tories in their current form (I know it's not how you meant it).

Wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to see the Tories in their current guise utterly destroyed as long as what replaces them is more grown up and competent.

A party that would give us proper grown up debate in our politics as opposed to the pathetic playground stuff we have to tolerate most of the time now.

Lib Dems maybe not to the right enough to plug the gap? Would like to see them as a strong opposition but probably won't be able to pick up enough non labour voters.

The lib dems have traditionally shared the Labour center ground I think. We may not like center right politics but it is a valid political ideology that many favour.

You are right the current tory party are very close to destroying the uk and the union its founded on. They aren't really traditional conservatives though.

I also agree it wouldn't be a bad thing if the tories had to start from scratch and it took a decade for them to be a force again.

Hopefully the extreme right will splinter and take the extreme voters with them.

 

[BoroFur]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1618364776228478976

 

[MolteniArcore]

Intersting chat on Peston last night with John Curtice, the polling expert.

As the Tories have burnt pretty much everyone in Parliament they would be unable to form a minority Government with anyone so effectively they need to add about 8 points on to their vote share on top of drawing level with Labour to form a Government - so even with a 20 point deficit they really need 30 to win.

Labour on the other hand could gain power with a poll loss.

It's really bad news for the Tories.

 

[festa5]

If they had a shred of decency or even dignity they'd call a general election and end this debacle.

They've lost control and it's clear as day they have no idea how to fix any of the problems, most of their own making.

It's also increasingly obvious a significant majority of the electorate want them gone too.

Sunak can't govern, he's weak and his party is splintered. He's not really in charge, he's just a figurehead for the sham government. Even if he had any original thoughts (he doesn't) he'd never be able to implement them because he'd never be able to get enough of his MPs to agree. A worrying number seem to think they're actually in UKIP (or worse).

Most ministers seem to be just leaning into the fact were pretty much just a Kleptocracy now.

 

[Paintolerance]

Intersting chat on Peston last night with John Curtice, the polling expert.

As the Tories have burnt pretty much everyone in Parliament they would be unable to form a minority Government with anyone so effectively they need to add about 8 points on to their vote share on top of drawing level with Labour to form a Government - so even with a 20 point deficit they really need 30 to win.

Labour on the other hand could gain power with a poll loss.

It's really bad news for the Tories.

They really are dead in the water. How do the advisors of Sunak think defending a multi millionaire tax avoider shores up votes. Or a serial bully who everyone thinks is a dimwit at best anyway?

Tied to a hard Brexit, that most of the population has now concluded is a disaster, by a handful of party loons.

And "but Corbyn", their only fall back after 13 disastrous years is not working. Whatever people on the left and others misgivings over Starmer, being a Corbynista is not one of them!

A clueless Government that has ran out of whatever ideas and steam they had in the 1st place.

 

[Zoophonic]

If they had a shred of decency or even dignity they'd call a general election and end this debacle.

They've lost control and it's clear as day they have no idea how to fix any of the problems, most of their own making.

It's also increasingly obvious a significant majority of the electorate want them gone too.

Sunak can't govern, he's weak and his party is splintered. He's not really in charge, he's just a figurehead for the sham government. Even if he had any original thoughts (he doesn't) he'd never be able to implement them because he'd never be able to get enough of his MPs to agree. A worrying number seem to think they're actually in UKIP (or worse).

Most ministers seem to be just leaning into the fact were pretty much just a Kleptocracy now.

They have no decency. They will cling on until Jsnuary 2025. Enough time for many of them to continue lining their pickets and go off to their shire manor houses in political retirement with pockets of money.

 

[BoroFur]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1618292626339373056

 

[Ziggy]

Interesting to see what happens with the Deformed Party numbers. Conservative voters will start to look seriously at them. The Tory party is rapidly ceasing to exist in the form we were used to describing them. Three main factions. All of them in a race further to the right.
If a party can gain an 80 seat majority by polling only 44% of the total votes cast….well.
We all know it’s twisted. Personally I want, and have always wanted PR in some form.

Make Votes Matter - Everything wrong with First Past the Post - Proportional Representation

Everything wrong with our First Past the Post voting system, why it’s so unpopular and why we need Proportional Representation to #MakeVotesMatter.

www.makevotesmatter.org.uk

 

[Lefty]

 

[Laughing]

View attachment 51830

Pretty graphic lefty. If you change the question to should we have a rejoin referendum it wouldn't look quite so obvious, unfortunately.

 

[Lefty]

Pretty graphic lefty. If you change the question to should we have a rejoin referendum it wouldn't look quite so obvious, unfortunately.

Indeed.

Brexit was a terrible choice, yet the whole Brexit process, debate and divide was even worse for most people so at the moment that the idea of revisiting it is an anathema. That is the main reason Boris won so handsomely. 'Getting Brexit Done' was less an endorsement for Brexit, it was more 'hey, I'll get us past this 4 year paralysis, argument and division one way or another'.

Even that sentiment will change the longer the detrimental aspects take effect, mind you.

 

[Laughing]

Indeed.

Brexit was a terrible choice, yet the whole Brexit process, debate and divide was even worse for most people so at the moment that the idea of revisiting it is an anathema. That is the main reason Boris won so handsomely. 'Getting Brexit Done' was less an endorsement for Brexit, it was more 'hey, I'll get us past this 4 year paralysis, argument and division one way or another'.

Even that sentiment will change the longer the detrimental aspects take effect, mind you.

Very well put. Wish I had said that, but it's what I meant to say

 

[BoroFur]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1622642871537893380

 

[SmallTown]

Please let there be a GE soon!

 

[ForssAwakens]

Haven’t read this thread for 3 weeks

There’s only one reason Labour won’t win the next election, and that’ll be in the left of the party refusing to hold thier nose to vote Labour

I’m not saying it’s like this but this is how the left should view

5 more years of pure misery, laws being ripped up, wealth being further distributed to the 1%, our right being taken away

OR

Someone who will install some of the rights back, will protect some things that important to use. Will stop the the wealth gap widening. Will help waiting times in the nhs. Those thing will still happen, as it did under Blair

Imagine not voting because the party is not left enough but enabling the worst government we have ever had

 

[SmallTown]

Haven’t read this thread for 3 weeks

There’s only one reason Labour won’t win the next election, and that’ll be in the left of the party refusing to hold thier nose to vote Labour

I’m not saying it’s like this but this is how the left should view

5 more years of pure misery, laws being ripped up, wealth being further distributed to the 1%, our right being taken away

OR

Someone who will install some of the rights back, will protect some things that important to use. Will stop the the wealth gap widening. Will help waiting times in the nhs. Those thing will still happen, as it did under Blair

Imagine not voting because the party is not left enough but enabling the worst government we have ever had

Well said. Whatever you feel idealogically you must know, deep down, that undermining labour can only help the Tories. In our current system it'll always be the case