The route cause of poverty in the UK

Brian Marwood

Well-known member
Let’s face it, this country is in a dire situation and worse than I have ever seen it in my lifetime. How crazy that people with full time employment need food banks and can’t afford to heat their property. But how did we get into this mess?

Are we as a nation paying for the furlough and wasted money from the Covid era? Does corruption play a part? Enormous profit taking from production companies and sales outlets such as supermarkets?

Would we be in a better situation had Labour been in power for the past 10 years instead?
 
Let’s face it, this country is in a dire situation and worse than I have ever seen it in my lifetime. How crazy that people with full time employment need food banks and can’t afford to heat their property. But how did we get into this mess?

Are we as a nation paying for the furlough and wasted money from the Covid era? Does corruption play a part? Enormous profit taking from production companies and sales outlets such as supermarkets?

Would we be in a better situation had Labour been in power for the past 10 years instead?
We have just returned from a coach tour to Germany and France, poverty exists outside of these shores as well. Strasbourg in France was full of beggars and pickpockets. Prices for food are high so we are not alone in this .Many Countries did not get Furlough, cafe and shopkeepers in Cyprus were had to live on what they had. WOULD we have been better, nobody knows.
 
Root cause of poverty in this country is the Tory party and the lurch towards the far right.

Their basic ethos is to make money, usually at the poorests expense.

Dave and Gideon started things with austerity and signed off with BrEXit.

Bozo - greedy narcissistic b*stard that he is - saw his reign as a massive opportunity to fill his pockets and didn't care who suffered.....and off the back of his "attitude" there came a new breed of even more greedy, corrupt unscrupulous b*stards who would sell their own granny for £10.

Add Covid which was like a Piranha free for all to the public coffers, the disaster capitalists wet dream BrEXit and the Russian invasion of Ukraine which has been used to keep energy/food prices high as a vehicle for blatant profiteering......yeah, the picture of where we are as a nation is starkly clear.

Would we have been better off under labour? I'd have to say probably as at least they make an effort to try to look after 99% of the population rather than the 1%. A modern day utopia - no. But definitely not more food banks than McDonald's and people freezing to death.
 
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The winter of discontent will always be on my mind, a different time and era but shows that all parties cannot keep everyone happy.
 
Industrial-scale tax avoidance, the hoarding of more and more wealth by the very richest, corporate theft in plain sight. You never hear about these things on the news or in the papers but that’s where the money is. It’s been looted, stolen, siphoned off and stuffed offshore. It’s absolutely disgusting that nobody in public life talks about these things.
 
Let’s face it, this country is in a dire situation and worse than I have ever seen it in my lifetime. How crazy that people with full time employment need food banks and can’t afford to heat their property. But how did we get into this mess?

Are we as a nation paying for the furlough and wasted money from the Covid era? Does corruption play a part? Enormous profit taking from production companies and sales outlets such as supermarkets?

Would we be in a better situation had Labour been in power for the past 10 years instead?
There'll always be poverty, it's unavoidable, but what we see now is down to political choice.
 
Let’s face it, this country is in a dire situation and worse than I have ever seen it in my lifetime. How crazy that people with full time employment need food banks and can’t afford to heat their property. But how did we get into this mess?

Are we as a nation paying for the furlough and wasted money from the Covid era? Does corruption play a part? Enormous profit taking from production companies and sales outlets such as supermarkets?

Would we be in a better situation had Labour been in power for the past 10 years instead?
We wouldn't, Nick Clegg propping up Cameron in 2010 was a real sliding doors moment, as was Brown's election that never was a year or so earlier. Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling had actually navigated Britain through the financial crash as well as most in the world, yes recession was happening, but without the political austerity choice of the Tory party aided by the Lib Dem the landing would have been softer for the less fortunate in our society.

Move forward to 2015 and the public has swallowed the Tory narrative that austerity is necessary because of the mess labour left (rather than the global financial crisis). The Lib Dem brand is toxic from the coalition and we therefore get a Tory majority, based on party unity through Cameron's ill-judged referendum promise. The subsequent referendum's No vote is aided by the on-going austerity, the Tory party descends into the obvious chaos with the result and we got Johnson, who is clueless managing the COVID crisis.

The alternative was more Brown, supported by Clegg, with PR introduced. 2015 we then get a progressive coaliton led by David Milliband, including Greens etc....and the PR means we never have a Tory government again, as the party splinters :)
 
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Root cause of poverty in this country is the Tory party and the lurch towards the far right.

Their basic ethos is to make money, usually at the poorest expense.

Dave and Gideon started things with austerity and signed of with BrEXit.

Bozo saw his reign as a massive opportunity to fill his pockets and didn't care who suffered.....and off the back of his "attitude" there came a new breed of even more greedy, corrupt unscrupulous b*stards who would sell their own granny for £10.

Add Covid which was like a Piranha free for all, the disaster capitalists wet dream, BrEXit and the Russian invasion of Ukraine which has been used to keep energy/food prices high as a vehicle for blatant profiteering......yeah, the picture of where we are as a nation is starkly clear.

Would we have been better off under labour? I'd have to say probably as at least they make an effort to try to look after 99% of the population rather than the 1%. A modern day utopia - no. But definitely not more food banks than McDonald's and people freezing to death.
Completely nailed the whole debate.
 
Capitalism
Capitalism - in theory - can work. It's when greed overcomes the need for a "decent" profit with all parties happy.

Sadly over the past 13 years "capitalism" in its basic form has been well and truly replaced with neo liberal ideology.....which as we are seeing shafts absolutely everyone apart from the uber rich.

And as viv correctly points out, when neo liberalism is combined with industrial scale hoarding and tax avoidance.......and the uber rich doing absolutely anything not to part with £1 - usually by nefarious means - here we are folks.
 
Yes the Tories are a do nothing, reduce spending, reduce % taxes, what will be will be, don’t care party - that’s their fundamental philosophy. They’ve always been clear on that. Why the working classes and middle Britain would vote for them has always been beyond me but they are good at the ‘strong leader’ and the ‘posh know best’ marketing con.
In my view the fundamental problem is the UK has not invested properly in industry since the core industries were defunded by Thatcher in the 80’s and the private sector followed. The only investment and concern since then has been The City and London’s financial institutions. Great for the SE but useless for the North and the Midland’s ex industrial cities.
Great to shut down inefficient old crap but successive governments and industrialists have made no effort to build a meaningful plan to replace them with anything at scale. What does Britain make? What does it export? A rag tag of stuff. Aerospace, cars, ‘services’?
On top of that we have the idiocy of Brexit - the slow puncture which will see Britain slide into economic oblivion in the next 20 years.
What gets me sitting on the other side of the world is the apathy. There used to be passion, riots, serious protests. Now just PlayStation, Coronations and endless nostalgia. Sad.
 
Capitalism - in theory - can work. It's when greed overcomes the need for a "decent" profit with all parties happy.

Sadly over the past 13 years "capitalism" in its basic form has been well and truly replaced with neo liberal ideology.....which as we are seeing shafts absolutely everyone apart from the uber rich.

And as viv correctly points out, when neo liberalism is combined with industrial scale hoarding and tax avoidance.......and the uber rich doing absolutely anything not to part with £1 - usually by nefarious means - here we are folks.
This is exactly it for me. Capitalism as such isn't the problem it's purely human greed that prevents it from working. Without this greed we could have people earning a good living wage, we could have companies and individuals paying taxes that good be re-invested into a well funded and functioning society and we could have a government that were just in it for themselves.

But unfortunately greed is the ultimate root cause of the poverty we see today and its sickening
 
Let’s face it, this country is in a dire situation and worse than I have ever seen it in my lifetime. How crazy that people with full time employment need food banks and can’t afford to heat their property. But how did we get into this mess?

Are we as a nation paying for the furlough and wasted money from the Covid era? Does corruption play a part? Enormous profit taking from production companies and sales outlets such as supermarkets?

Would we be in a better situation had Labour been in power for the past 10 years instead?
Off the top of my head…………… The nations problems can be laid at the door of all the Politicians, the tabloid press, globalisation and many a daft UK resident over the course of the period since Boro were in Eindhoven.

When Brown took over from Blair his star was riding high, he should have called an election in the Autumn of 2007. The subsequent economic crash was handled quite well to start with, but the global economic crisis led to a world wide crash and recession, rising unemployment and huge increase in national debtplus his dithering and handling on the abolition of the10p tax rate and losses in the local and European elections saw his popularity plummet. He lost support in the party and factions from within saw Labour splits widen and undermine Brown and his government.

At the same time the tories were rebranding and with the help of the press seized the opportunity to spread propaganda, using the global financial crisis as if it was all Labours fault. Thicko’s who read the Sun, Mail and Express bought into the smears, inadvertently assisted by some on the left within Labour. Ultimately the dashing cut of Camerons jib and the tory smoke and mirrors enabled them the opportunity to form a coalition government with the Liberals, the judas’s of Westminster. Clegg & co propping up the tories for the pieces of silver enabled austerity to get a foothold, lies to be spread around as to the state of the country and fool the nation into thinking everything was Labours fault and the only solution was pain and suffering.

The electorate went along with this stupidity and self harm policies because Labour was too busy fighting itself, leaving the tories and Lib Dems to pretend all was under control. The fact it wasn’t, Clegg and co backed the wrong horse and paid a huge political price allowing the tories to use them as patsy’s and win the 2015 election outright as the global recession had been allegedly put out and the economy was in calmer waters thanks to the tories (yeah right) as was the wider worlds and the promise of a referendum on EU membership led to an unexpected outright win.

Then pig headed Cameron (see what i did there) thought he was one step ahead of his own party and went ahead with the most unnecessary political event in history, calling the referendum. He called his bluff with the ERG and the EU only for the British people to give the coward a bloody nose. He failed to highlight the benefits of EU membership, call out the lies on ALL sides and enabled the tory right to gain power and a stranglehold using Brexit as their weapon. Cleverly though, they defined Brexit as one thing, selling sovereignty, control to one group while allowing bigotry to run rabid through parts of the country that fed the narrative of the little Englanders and the red wall seats who had ironically probably suffered the most through austerity. Derren Brown and David Blaine combined could not have pulled off a bigger trick on the British people.

The failure of Labour under Corbyn saw May muddle through her internal battles with tory left and right, as to what Brexit actually was, her befuddlement still managed to win an election as no cohesive policies existed from either party that allowed May to win despite a much lower majority. The nation was divided in all quarters and not just along party lines as remainer MP’s were too scared to do the right thing, which would have been to bring the nation back together by working out a brexit deal then offer the country a second referendum on whether we felt the deal was what we wanted collectively and whether it was what we voted for. Had remainers had the courage of their convictions and put nation and its people before party, I think the subsequent **** show could have been largely avoided.

The tory right won the day, the duplicitous Johnson and his cronies who manipulated their careers based on a foundation of lies, deceit and contempt for the truth gained a hold and the emperor with his new clothes persuaded the nation he would get brexit done. By now the people were so sick of the whole mess they somehow bought ‘his truth’ and a landslide victory. To get it done he even risked splitting the UK into 3 or 4 separate nations, but Joe Bloggs was happy in his white van to clench his fist and say we give it to johnny foreigner. It was a bit like the tribalism of football in the 70’s, winning and losing wasn’t everything, it was about the white noise and bigotry that went with it that seemed to make people feel good.

The pandemic enabled Johnson to repay his rich backers with wealthy contracts while scaring the public literally in some cases to death. He saw off loads of OAP’s sending expensive NHS customers to the grave, saved on pensions and benefits to boot, using the money to further his own aims. He and his pals grew so used to pulling the wool over our eyes he thought he was invincible. Sunak managed to give all our wealth saved through austerity under a furlough scheme that encouraged fraud and massive exploitation by some UK citizens and foreign criminal gangs to such a degree it was not worth attempting to recover it later, thereby virtually bankrupting the country.

The pandemic causing people to work from home saw lots of shops and businesses close, especially the service and sales industries. People got used to online shopping and making their own lunches causing, cafes, bars, shops to go out of business due to footfall dropping alarmingly. Workers quite enjoyed orking at home, saved on commute costs, time etc and enjoyed a better work life balance. Companies saved fortunes on fuel, rates, phonebills and could close some or all of their offices. Customer service was allowed to drop and we were foolish to accept it without a fight. Dr’s decided a 3 day week suited them and access to the NHS was like trying to get access to your mrs knickers after the second kid, it was most unlikely to happen when you wanted it, you’d have to wait until they deemed it appropriate.

Foodbanks and Funeral Parlours were the new growth sectors, along with self employed delivery drivers, selfishness flourished at the expense of neighbourliness. We are where we are because of ourselves allowing politicians to do as they please and we only have ourselves to blame as we gave them the right to run the country to its knees. We are in a bleak black hole and the only light that can be seen is by getting rid of this blue nosed shower of liars, cheats and self entitled vagabonds currently plundering our taxes. Labour have to be given the keys to No10, if not then we are doomed as a country and the lights and our hearts and minds will slowly but surely be allowed to wither and die.
 
People are talking about too recent a history IMO. The grotesque inequality and rising poverty levels are 40-50 years in the making. This is the end point of Thatcherism, or Reaganomics. The system is f*cked. Everybody knows it but nobody says it.

We live under a system that is working perfectly well for those at the top but is f*cked for us. It’s built for those that have to plunder and steal and hoard. That so many are suffering is completely by design. Like when people celebrate Thatcher dying, yeah by all means have a few drinks and a dance, but her politics live on. And that’s the trouble. That’s what needs killing if we are to move forward and progress and lift each other up. You need to kill it at source.
 
The crash in 2008 led to a catastrophic breakdown in trust amongst the broader public in terms of the Thatcherite consensus, in that more and more people realised that the system did not work as they were promised it would. It destroyed confidence. People saw the very wealthiest cover their own arses by raiding the public finances without consequence, which was followed by an unelected coalition government that forced austerity on to a country that hadn’t voted for it. 2008 was Thatcherism imploding and we’re just living through the effects of it.

In my opinion.
 
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Imo the thatcherite system is doing what it is meant to do; dismantle the effects of the post war social programme and return to a pre war status quo. Take away NHS and social welfare and funnel wealth back into the hands of the uber rich. 1945 was a moment of weakness by a shattered elite. They've been trying ever since to claw back what they view as rightfully theirs. Unfortunately too many people are believing the propaganda that these thing are unaffordable and happily vote for their removal.
 
I dont think we have ever really reconciled ourselves to the correct balance of tax v spend - we want low taxers but great public services. We cant have both and privatising everything has made it all worse

In France the basic rate of tax is 30% for people earning over 25k, in Germany is broadly similar for similar earnings, in the UK its 20%. Unpopular as it sounds more people need to be paying more tax, and not just rich people. Corporation tax also needs to be higher too. We also need to invest more in renewable energy, energy efficiency, public infrastructure, skills - you name it.
 
In 81 Reagan and Thatcher embarked on the economic policy of Friedmanism with the ultimate aim of creating a neo-feudal state where debt is control and society is devolved, we have always had poverty but until that time Government's had never caused needless poverty through policy, the reason the country is as it is purely down to political choices that widen the divide and all those mortgaged up to the eyeballs in their leased cars don't realise that credit creates serfdom and their supposed financial security is as big an illusion as their perfect Instagram lives.
 
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