We got a slice of luck…

EFL Highlights thought it was incredibly soft and leant heavily in to the "allegedly" kicked out.

Sky Sports said it was controversial, as did the BBC, though neither report said why they thought it was.

Wagner says they're going to appeal it.

I think he has done it on purpose, so I don't have any issue with it being a red, but I can see why neutrals would be a bit less sure of that.
 
TeaCider said:
EFL Highlights thought it was incredibly soft and leant heavily in to the "allegedly" kicked out.

Sky Sports said it was controversial, as did the BBC, though neither report said why they thought it was.

Wagner says they're going to appeal it.

I think he has done it on purpose, so I don't have any issue with it being a red, but I can see why neutrals would be a bit less sure of that.
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I suspect most qualified refs would say it's soft but technically a red. Most people will say never a red, but the people like Coldplay and voted for the nazis, you can't trust people.
 
This is my take on it after watching it from different angles about a dozen times lol. I think the player did intentionally try and scrape Howson with his stud's which would be a red.
Not a lot of contact was made and half the time he would of been given a warning by the ref.
Did Howson make the most of it? Yeah of course he did! But he is the captain of a team in poor form and used an excuse given by the opposition to try and change the game for Boro advantage. How many times have we been saying we are "too nice" or "we need a midfielder who can use the dark arts".
I'm assuming Norwich will appeal the red so we should get a better idea then if the ref was correct.
I won't sit on the moral high ground on this one as I don't think it was a case of a player(Howson) trying to get another player booked for no reason and Howson did(and possibly less dramatic) what most other players would of done in that situation.
 
I'd regard a slice as what you get when you cut into - say - a cake, then make another cut at an acute angle. I would suggest the amount of luck we had last night was the bit of the cake that's left when you remove the slice. Not just for the debatable red card, but the way in which Norwich inexplicably set about playing like they had eight men rather than ten. A complete capitulation when they'd been battering us.
 
speckyget said:
I'd regard a slice as what you get when you cut into - say - a cake, then make another cut at an acute angle. I would suggest the amount of luck we had last night was the bit of the cake that's left when you remove the slice. Not just for the debatable red card, but the way in which Norwich inexplicably set about playing like they had eight men rather than ten. A complete capitulation when they'd been battering us.
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I thought their movement for the first 30 minutes was excellent. They pressed as a team and we didn't know what to do. Their goal was very scrappy/flooky, but I'm certain they'd have got a couple more had they kept 11 men on the pitch. They went to pieces after the red card though, and I was just expecting them to dig in and get 9 behind the ball and try to hit us on the break.
 
BoroMart said:
What exactly did howson do wrong, he didn't fling himself to the ground and roll around. he pointed to his thigh but the ref had seen it already
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He makes a meal of the contact by pretending he was hurt. Hopping around and hobbling.

"you've got to play the game as well. Is there a lot of contact? Maybe not. Some of their lads said to me that they'd have done exactly the same if they were me".

Not my words, the words of Jonny Howson.

I guess it depends what you want to see from your players. I just hate we see unsporting behaviour and sh*thousery from players, regardless of who they play for. I'm the same with diving.

If we are comfortable to lambast opposition players for these things then we should remain consistent.
 
speckyget said:
I'd regard a slice as what you get when you cut into - say - a cake, then make another cut at an acute angle. I would suggest the amount of luck we had last night was the bit of the cake that's left when you remove the slice. Not just for the debatable red card, but the way in which Norwich inexplicably set about playing like they had eight men rather than ten. A complete capitulation when they'd been battering us.
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There is a reason Norwich are where they are, they are inconsistent from game to game, and period to period in games. They had a good 30 mins but chances are they would have had poor moments even with 11 men
 
Linny said:
He makes a meal of the contact by pretending he was hurt. Hopping around and hobbling.

"you've got to play the game as well. Is there a lot of contact? Maybe not. Some of their lads said to me that they'd have done exactly the same if they were me".

Not my words, the words of Jonny Howson.

I guess it depends what you want to see from your players. I just hate we see unsporting behaviour and sh*thousery from players, regardless of who they play for. I'm the same with diving.

If we are comfortable to lambast opposition players for these things then we should remain consistent.
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I see this as quite different from diving, which is pure cheating, this was influencing, as there was contact, just pretty petty and weak.
 
That appeal won't be overturned, it was probably more than a yellow but a soft red if that makes sense. But he most definitely did it deliberately and if Howson was surprised by the contact/kick out I can see it would be noticeable, even if it didn't hurt. Some players would have been rolling around and perhaps the fact he didn't made the referee's mind up for him?
 
Ravshoutsatbeck said:
I didn't watch live - so was expecting a terrible decision when I saw the red.

Really difficult to judge - someone posted the Beckham 98 sending off and I think that was a good analogy.

An absolute nothing incident but I do think he intentionally puts his studs down Howson's thigh.

So... I think letter of the law a red and the ref won't be criticised by the powers that be for it, but any sensible ref gives a yellow.

Will be interesting to see if it is rescinded
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Beckham was retaliation does not matter how soft it is retaliation is a red card offence
 
Just watched the highlights back on a bigger screen. Anyone else think Barnes was offside for the first goal? So maybe luck evened itself out.

Never seen a game change quite so much on a red card though, we were woeful up to then and then all of a sudden looked like we believed
 
speckyget said:
I'd regard a slice as what you get when you cut into - say - a cake, then make another cut at an acute angle. I would suggest the amount of luck we had last night was the bit of the cake that's left when you remove the slice. Not just for the debatable red card, but the way in which Norwich inexplicably set about playing like they had eight men rather than ten. A complete capitulation when they'd been battering us.
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I really can't fathom Norwich's performance after the red card. To sit back with 2 banks of 4 and just let us have the ball was inexplicable given what had gone before. They altered it a bit 2nd half but to no great effect. They stopped pressing and closing us down it was nuts. They played right into our hands really. Plus I couldn't understand the stupid time wasting nonsense with the keeper and centre backs at goal kicks when they were behind and should have been chasing the game.
 

Interesting that the Norwich City TV commentators blame their players temper for it, not the ref. Second time he's done something similar this season. They recognised straight away he'd done something which could land him in trouble. His teammates didn't seem best pleased with him either.
 
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