Stockholm syndrome -the tories

Amazing that after one year on with some of the worst covid figured in the world,despite them giving billions in covid related contracts to their mates and then treating NHS workers so badly they are actually polling better than this time last year.
I got the brexit boost, I just don't get the covid surge
 
I don't really comment on political threads but would like to ask, what is the solution?

I'm sure the last thing the people of Hartlepool want to do is vote Tory, but if they do (and it is still only an if), rather than just offering vitorol in their general direction people need to find out why they have and then listen to their repsonse. Unfortunately if their response is because I was left with nobody else to vote for because I don't like x, y or z, then this needs to be addressed.

As staunch a Labour man as I am, I can understand why people vote Tory and most of it is because they have a PR advantage over all the other parties (I can't even tell you who the leader is of the Lib Dems and I think that's a case in point). Whether we like it or not Starmer needs to get an Alistair Campbell equivalent, because as we have seen with somebody like Trump gaining power in the past, social media and PR are now more important than policy I'm afraid

It's a long journey back to power for Labour and unfortunately I cannot see it happening until the GE after the next one which means we could potentially have another 8 years of the Torys
 
There is an old adage that cheats never prosper but the reality is that in politics the opposite is true, there’s a narrative that all the problems of today were caused by the past Labour Government, that the current regime are performing well, that things like the National Debt has been reduced, that poverty has fallen and that unemployment hardly exists...in part there’s a culpability by the MSM on how they present these things but the reality is that the majority of people don’t care or engage in politics, and being told everything is ok is enough reassurance for them to believe it.
 
American_Mary said:
.... but the reality is that the majority of people don’t care or engage in politics, and being told everything is ok is enough reassurance for them to believe it.
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This sums it up, when I was growing up I was taking bets on the outcome of the general election such was the buzz around politics. Also thanks to programmes like Spitting Image and comedians in the late 80s I could probably name both the cabinet and the shadow cabinet because politics was so important.

Now it takes all the energy people can muster to even vote, nevermind have an opinion. One solution might be to make voting compulsory and even if you spoil your paper you still have to vote (you get fined £1000 for not filling in a census form, why not for not voting) and move elections to a weekend give people two days to vote amd start the count on Monday.

But unfortunately the party currently in power do not want to change anything as they are in a very comfortable position.
 
It’s always the game of what they say and what they mean.
Yesterday from Johnson... a good example.

What he said: “If there’s a third wave in Europe...it will probably ‘wash up’ on our shores”


What he means. “ When we open up, if all goes Tîts up we can blame it on them”
 
The same with the defence review.....all the cuts will come immediately and the jam tomorrow ships and other new equipment will be put on the back burner or cancelled. Don’t worry though because we’ll drape all our soldiers in the Union Flag which will deflect all the enemy bullets and shrapnel and our patriotism will shine through and take us to victory!🙄
 
jam69 said:
Is that why no matter how awful they do so many seem to think they are wonderful.
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No it’s not that it’s the nanny knows best philosophy that underpins the class system and has done for decades.

you often hear torries use the phrase that They are the natural party of government and they really do believe this but sadly so does the electorate.
 
jam69 said:
That doesn't explain the love for the abuser
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Fair point Jam, I don't know what the alternative is.

I will be voting for no major party in my local elections or at the next general election. I very much hope there is a good/sensible independent in my ward/constituency.
 
T_A_D said:
Fair point Jam, I don't know what the alternative is.

I will be voting for no major party in my local elections or at the next general election. I very much hope there is a good/sensible independent in my ward/constituency.
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This part of the problem for me. A lot of people dislike the Tories, but also can't bring themselves to vote Labour or the lib dems even if they see them as the lesser of 2 (or 3) evils. Obviously people quite rightly can vote for whoever they like of course.

But abstaining or voting for a candidate who has no chance favours the Tories and keeps them in power. It's not as bad as voting for them, but it's also not really voting against them.

As a general principle I don't think it's healthy for one party to be in power for too long or have a significant majority, particularly with FPTP. They stop listening to the population as a whole (if they ever did) and are able to pander more and more to their sponsors and genuine supporters (who usually make up far less than 50% of the electorate).

I've probably cast as many votes just to try and remove a governing party (including labour) as I have because I actually genuinely backed the alternative. Sometimes it does them all good to get the message from voters "no, not good enough". The Tories aren't getting this message, in fact increasingly from the public they seem to be hearing that they're doing brilliantly. The facts clearly show this not to be the case though.

Food for thought maybe for anyone who is against this government but are convincing themselves they can't vote for any alternatives with a genuine chance to stop them.
 
The perception from many people on the street is bound to be that they are doing brilliantly.

Sunak has pumped hundreds of billions into the economy so that millions can sit the pandemic out at home with the half chance that they will have a job to go back to.

The country has largely been shut down for a year to keep the vulnerable and the over 60’s much safer than they would otherwise have been.

A huge part of the working population has been able to work from home under government instruction, that has saved them the 1 to 2 hours traffic jam or crowded train morning and night.

These are unprecedented measures which will be popular with millions upon millions.

The media would never have let Labour get away with it.

The bill will be coming in soon and let’s see what happens then.

With the measures taken and the money spent I would imagine a lot of Tories are concerned that they aren’t 20 to 30% ahead in the polls.
 
Anyone who wants the tories out should hold their collective noses and vote tactically, regardless of who that tactical vote selects. The tories are not good for society, they abandon the vulnerable, the poor and the needy. Funding those who can benefit them and feeding the rest of society scraps.

If that's your bag, good luck to you.
 
HolgateCorner said:
The perception from many people on the street is bound to be that they are doing brilliantly.

Sunak has pumped hundreds of billions into the economy so that millions can sit the pandemic out at home with the half chance that they will have a job to go back to.

The country has largely been shut down for a year to keep the vulnerable and the over 60’s much safer than they would otherwise have been.

A huge part of the working population has been able to work from home under government instruction, that has saved them the 1 to 2 hours traffic jam or crowded train morning and night.

These are unprecedented measures which will be popular with millions upon millions.

The media would never have let Labour get away with it.

The bill will be coming in soon and let’s see what happens then.

With the measures taken and the money spent I would imagine a lot of Tories are concerned that they aren’t 20 to 30% ahead in the polls.
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How do we alter that perception then? How do we evacuate people so they can see the truth?
 
Laughing said:
Anyone who wants the tories out should hold their collective noses and vote tactically, regardless of who that tactical vote selects. The tories are not good for society, they abandon the vulnerable, the poor and the needy. Funding those who can benefit them and feeding the rest of society scraps.

If that's your bag, good luck to you.
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The problem is laughing they have convinced so many that the alternative is scary no matter how scary the current government is.
Iam not even talking about those who vote tory as they see it as the lesser of two evils , iam talking about those that actually think they are doing a wonderful job, and will forgive them anything.
The death toll doesn't matter, the worst death toll in Europe, the worst death rate of the G7, the cronyism, its all forgiven ," yeah but it would have been worse under labour" .
The brexit cult explains some of it , but as in the title of the thread , the worse they are the more many seem to love them .
 

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jam69 said:
The problem is laughing they have convinced so many that the alternative is scary no matter how scary the current government is.
Iam not even talking about those who vote tory as they see it as the lesser of two evils , iam talking about those that actually think they are doing a wonderful job, and will forgive them anything.
Tye death toll doesn't matter, the worst death toll in Europe, the worst death rate of the G7, the cronyism, its all forgiven ," yeah but it would have been worse under labour" .
The brexit cultists explains some of it , but as in the title of the thread , the worse they are the more many seem to love them .
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Which is why the rest of us should vote tactically. On the subject of the tory love in from some sections, other parties clearly need to do better with messaging. Some of the attitudes to starmer on here just perpetuate a tory government.

For those not politically engaged you have to catch their attention. Labour are not nearly aggressive enough. They need to get a strategist in who will cross lines.

A poster with 140000 tombstones would be a start. It would quickly be removed but makes a point.

Every racist and mysogynist quote from Johnson on another poster.

Every broken promise from 2019 on another.

Every documented unlawful act on another.

If your a **** it shouldn't be too difficult to make the politically unaware, aware of the fact.
 
SmallTown said:
How do we alter that perception then? How do we evacuate people so they can see the truth?
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I think my underlying point is that we have been in a false existence which we all know will have to come to an end soon and it’s at that point the economic reality will hit home. Putting the politics of it to one side, I don’t think it is going to be pretty and the virus will still be here.
 
It’s thoroughly depressing how as a nation, we have seemingly stopped caring when our politicians lie, when they are dangerously incompetent, when they are openly corrupt, when they are transferring public money to their donors and chums, and when the media stop reporting it through fear of being cut out, or worse still, because a Tory ‘friend’ has been put in place to ensure there is NO impartiality.

If the polls are to be believed, we even seemingly reward all of the above!

Is the U.K. public the most politically naive/ignorant, easily manipulated population on the planet?
 
“ The bill will be coming in soon and let’s see what happens then”

That’s what we will be told. Although no attempt will be made to even begin to pay it, because they don’t have too. But course we will consistently reminded about it as justification for actions they’re taking.
But what they will do is instigate another round of cut backs, along with some COVID plus civil measures “For our own good”
What Johnson could be facing if the rollout is a success. There will be nowhere to hide the real affects of Brexit. Which will start to kick in 2-3 months time.
 
Laughing said:
Which is why the rest of us should vote tactically. On the subject of the tory love in from some sections, other parties clearly need to do better with messaging. Some of the attitudes to starmer on here just perpetuate a tory government.

For those not politically engaged you have to catch their attention. Labour are not nearly aggressive enough. They need to get a strategist in who will cross lines.

A poster with 140000 tombstones would be a start. It would quickly be removed but makes a point.

Every racist and mysogynist quote from Johnson on another poster.

Every broken promise from 2019 on another.

Every documented unlawful act on another.

If your a **** it shouldn't be too difficult to make the politically unaware, aware of the fact.
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Mandleson is back in the fold as far as strategists go. I’d expect a lurch back to the centre. Expect to see Kier in front of a flag quite a lot more. It probably won’t be a Lebanese one either.
 
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