We should all live as the Queen did

BoroMart said:
So she was given a platform to say some words. I wasn't given a platform to achieve anything at 14, I wasn't given anything in life. I had to grow up, learn, earn and take what I could off my own effort.

So that was 80 years ago, got something a bit more recent, say the last 50 years, maybe something where it's completely altruistic, involves significant time and money to the betterment of other people?
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Go see a therapist
Long live the King
 
Pak_Doo_Ik said:
Also now you’ve upped to 345m I assume


Don’t get dragged in to that Loop cos people who don’t like the the monarchy will tell you they cost more than they earn!!!
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He's been at it ever since she passed away. Correct, he'll come out with some rubbish no doubt. Total entitlement mentality.
 
Pak_Doo_Ik said:
no cos I don’t have 345 million pounds, but I assume as you ignored the rest of my post you are very happy with our electoral system that allows a government elected with a minority of those allowed to vote to pass the laws that far outweigh your alleged 345m spend on things like not fit for purpose PPE. Perhaps you should redirect your anger and angst a much more worthy cause
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No, but my question was about the £345m pounds that is collected in taxes from us all and gifted to a single family. You are ok with that, inspite of the fact it could be used to save thousands of lives.

As for your comment about our electoral system. No, it's unfit for purpose. It allows one aristocratic family to amend bills before they go to the elected chamber. That chamber is corrupted with yet more aristocrats who have somehow gained a majority based on a sizeable minority of the citizens voting for them. Then it goes to another chamber, where, guess what, another bunch of hereditary aristocrats get to reject anything that isn't self serving. It's a ridiculous system that doesn't work in the interests of the people and is far from a democracy. The royal family is a key part of that system and a key benefactor in the decisions.

My 'anger and angst' at this corrupt system is exactly where it should be. Perhaps you should open your eyes a bit more?
 
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Loop said:
He's been at it ever since she passed away. Correct, he'll come out with some rubbish no doubt. Total entitlement mentality.
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nope, I've been 'at it' for years. I haven't personally attacked any individual, just the system.

We are in a debate about the royal family and I'm the one with 'entitlement mentality'....couldn't make it up.
 
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BoroMart said:
Well you are the one postulating this, so you tell me with sources....
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It's funny that you're only quoting figures to try and support your argument. You know fine well what they bring in, but that wouldn't suit your agenda now would it 😬
 
OnTheDeck said:
For one, her address to children across the country as a 14 year old to reassure them during the Second World War, we’ll before the riches bestowed on her. What were you doing at 14?
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I was probably trying to knock one out when I was 14
Stood me in good stead for a good life too

Thought you weren’t posting again btw
 
Loop said:
It's funny that you're only quoting figures to try and support your argument. You know fine well what they bring in, but that wouldn't suit your agenda now would it 😬
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What has money got to do with it?
Even if they do bring in more than they cost - we are a country that can afford to right off £4by from those who cheated the covid procurement process.
100m or so is insignificant

More relevant to some is that bestowing privilege on someone merely as a result of their lineage is frickin bonkers and a little unfair
 
Loop said:
It's funny that you're only quoting figures to try and support your argument. You know fine well what they bring in, but that wouldn't suit your agenda now would it 😬
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Do you think royal houses and all the associated tourist attractions would suddenly stop generating income on the declaration of a republic? The French seem to be doing alright…
 
1finny said:
What has money got to do with it?
Even if they do bring in more than they cost - we are a country that can afford to right off £4by from those who cheated the covid procurement process.
100m or so is insignificant

More relevant to some is that bestowing privilege on someone merely as a result of their lineage is frickin bonkers and a little unfair
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It was merely a reply to BoroMart who started to bring up what money they take out as a point to suit his agenda.

Why is it unfair, should it be done by a lottery draw? That's like saying it's unfair that Elon Musks' children are going to be incredibly wealthy only because their Dad is.
 
Smoggle said:
Do you think royal houses and all the associated tourist attractions would suddenly stop generating income on the declaration of a republic? The French seem to be doing alright…
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I'm sure they would still generate income & the family would still be incredibly wealthy too, probably wealthier if anything. Plus with significantly fewer duties to uphold. However, the grandeur & symbolism of the Royal family would be lost, so it wouldn't hold as much weight as it does across the globe.

I'm not sure what their old palaces estate generate or cost. Have you got the figures?
 
Loop said:
I'm sure they would still generate income & the family would still be incredibly wealthy too, probably wealthier if anything. Plus with significantly fewer duties to uphold. However, the grandeur & symbolism of the Royal family would be lost, so it wouldn't hold as much weight as it does across the globe.

I'm not sure what their old palaces estate generate or cost. Have you got the figures?
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Depends on what happens with the aristocracy and landed gentry in general, I’m sure they would still be wealthy but may have to generate money via other methods.

France does absolutely fine for grandeur and symbolism, without an unelected family and their hangers on.

From a quick look the total estates took in ~£50,000,000 in 19/20 prior to covid. Where all that money ends up (does all/some of it actually benefit normal people) is another question. Those estates would still take money in if they weren’t royal, in fact their purposes could be diversified to generate more revenue potentially.

Also, Elon Musk isn’t an unelected, hereditary head of state with everything that comes with that role.

People can support the monarchy all they want, most of my family are of the monarchist persuasion, I don’t agree with them there but don’t feel too strongly about it until it’s put forward that they’re some kind of essential, benevolent or benign presence that upholds all goodness in this country. Just like I don’t need religion to show me what a decent person looks like, I don’t need royalty to provide a beacon of morality either. If others need that, well, that’s their thing.
 
Smoggle said:
Depends on what happens with the aristocracy and landed gentry in general, I’m sure they would still be wealthy but may have to generate money via other methods.

France does absolutely fine for grandeur and symbolism, without an unelected family and their hangers on.

From a quick look the total estates took in ~£50,000,000 in 19/20 prior to covid. Where all that money ends up (does all/some of it actually benefit normal people) is another question. Those estates would still take money in if they weren’t royal, in fact their purposes could be diversified to generate more revenue potentially.

Also, Elon Musk isn’t an unelected, hereditary head of state with everything that comes with that role.

People can support the monarchy all they want, most of my family are of the monarchist persuasion, I don’t agree with them there but don’t feel too strongly about it until it’s put forward that they’re some kind of essential, benevolent or benign presence that upholds all goodness in this country. Just like I don’t need religion to show me what a decent person looks like, I don’t need royalty to provide a beacon of morality either. If others need that, well, that’s their thing.
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Possibly, but their estates are large enough to look after them without any issues.

It does in other aspects, but not on the level the monarchy does especially worldwide.

The PoV is also severely struggling now and costs 15 million per annum & they currently have an emergency campaign going to raise funds for it.

Correct. That's just opinion though, which is fine. I disagree though.
 
Smoggle said:
From a quick look the total estates took in ~£50,000,000 in 19/20 prior to covid. Where all that money ends up (does all/some of it actually benefit normal people) is another question. Those estates would still take money in if they weren’t royal, in fact their purposes could be diversified to generate more revenue potentially.
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Actually reading a bit further that 50 should probably rise to around £70,000,000, then add the Crown Estates and £450,000,000. I haven’t a clue where all that money goes though, I doubt the average Brit benefits much, but always willing to educated on matters where I don’t have answers.
 
Loop said:
Possibly, but their estates are large enough to look after them without any issues.
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That’s assuming that in a hypothetical future change in the UK’s relationship with monarchy the aristocracy keep their massive land holdings. That would be one of the first changes to address if the potential for a republic became a genuine possibility.

Loop said:
It does in other aspects, but not on the level the monarchy does especially worldwide.
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Maybe. As an expat for around 10 years I get the attraction of the monarchy to many people overseas - I’m not sure that’s a good enough argument for keeping them - but I don’t think a republic would change too much and I’m always amused when I see posters on here claiming how irrelevant the UK is, we certainly aren’t even if we do shoot ourselves in the foot every so often! Despite our problems at home and difficulties with our national identity, we are often still very good at promoting “Britishness” overseas and creating a romance that attracts people, I’ve witnessed this first hand in all the countries I’ve lived in.

Loop said:
Correct. That's just opinion though, which is fine. I disagree though.
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Yep, happy to have civilised discussions on this topic. If a republic is ever to happen then a lot of monarchists are going to have to be persuaded it’s the right way to go and insults/mudslinging are not ways I feel convince people, quite the opposite. We’re not anywhere near the point of a republic though. For the record I’ve avoided all other threads and I’ll not be controversial to the queen at this time, I’ve no wish to offend and being respectful at this time just seems the right thing to do, republican or not. There will be plenty of time to look at legacies and really analyse the monarchy once we see what Charles is offering in the role.
 
Loop said:
It was merely a reply to BoroMart who started to bring up what money they take out as a point to suit his agenda.

Why is it unfair, should it be done by a lottery draw? That's like saying it's unfair that Elon Musks' children are going to be incredibly wealthy only because their Dad is.
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I have no problem with people earning their wealth and paying their due taxes to provide social services to those less fortunate.
And I also think it is unfair for anyone to inherit wealth - done nothing to earn it other than been born lucky.
 
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