r00fie1
Well-known member
Overhaul the Marketing Department and ensure it has a strategy in place to increase commercial revenue streams.
If it's anything like the PR Department, there are questions which need to be asked.
Renewal Announcement - 30th March Deadline
- Thread starter fmttmadmin
- Start date
If it's anything like the PR Department, there are questions which need to be asked.
ForssAwakens
Well-known member
Tone deaf
You don't even need that much experience in business. Just as long as you haven't got all your knowledge from a single episode of the Apprentice you can see that we focus on a single variable, margin, rather than the whole equation of margin x volume = profit.
The club seem completely oblivious to the concept of volume. It's not just ticketing, it's the club shop as well. They would rather sell fewer shirts at full price than most shirts at full price and then some at half price so they deliberately order less than demand. They'd rather charge premium prices for 2 or 3 bits of tat than standard prices for lots of tat. They have no desire to sell all the seats in the stadium because they prefer to have 1 sell out a season at full price than 20 at a reasonable price. There are so many things that we do as a club which is fixated on the margin that I do worry that whoever they have modelling any data hasn't been past the first chapter in their textbook. There are deliberate strategies around things like ticketing and delivery fees that actively deter new fans/customers. It's really bizarre.
There are so many things we could do better. It appears really amateurish from the outside. I've complained many times about how Gibson has failed to grow the fanbase in anyway whatsoever since he took over. If we had gained any fans from outside of Teesside, especially globally, and had a product to sell them (merchandise, iFollow, etc) then we could have increased revenues by increasing volume. He's missed the boat now obviously, his chance was 20 years ago when we were in the PL, in Europe and signing superstars. He has got himself into this situation deliberately where his fanbase is a tiny core of people. Even within Teesside he tried ******* off half of them by calling them mackems. If you want more money out of the same people every year the only option you have left is increasing prices and hope they don't leave. They will leave though. I'd guess we're top heavy in the age ranges that attend the Riverside and inevitably those people will stop going at some point and never come back. There is a much older crowd at the Riverside than there is at an away game for example.
I bet there are more young people now on Teesside that are not Boro fans compared to my days. Football on the TV is really accessible now for the PL teams and we've been outside the PL for so long that anyone under 20 that only watches MotD or youtube/FIFA etc will have barely heard of us. Kids will be buying whatever shirts are available in Sports Direct and watching those matches more easily than they can watch a Boro match. Only way to get them is to get them through the door and you aren't going to do that so easily at the walk-up prices we charge. It's so much cheaper to support one of the big teams and if you aren't going to go to the match anyway why would kids choose Boro over City/Liverpool/Utd or even PSG/Barcelona/Madrid/Bayern etc.
FishofContemplation
Well-known member
I’m not ignoring the money aspect. We are the most expensive and I don’t think we should.
Your point was that we are paying more for the same performance though, and I am disagreeing with your assessment of the performance aspect, on the basis that five top 10 finishes in six including two play-offs is not the same as four seasons in league one to give the worst of your examples, nor even the same as two in six with no playoffs, to give the best.
We pay more for better. Both of those are undeniable facts. Is it cause and effect? Don’t know. Would it justify the prices if it was? Probably not. But we haven’t been doing “the same” as any of your four.
indeedido
Well-known member
Nano's point on margin without linking volume is spot on. I'd add the dimension of time too.
His description of Gibson's mindset is spot on.
Steve has become very wealthy through transporting waste/dangerous fluids.
He has absolutely no consumer/shopper understanding or expertise.
He is so far removed from normal society he has no grasp how people think and how they make their decisions. He has no empathy.
He tolerates nobody challenging him.
His whole thinking revolves around keeping a core customer base hooked in forever, while milking anybody that pays for the first time or pays less often than every possible opportunity.
You are either fully signed in, or fair game to be ripped off.
Those fully signed in still pay more than most fans at other clubs, but the level of premium that anybody else who goes has to pay beggars belief.
This then gets those who join in paying a lot of unbudgeted money and Steve smiles. A big crowd sniffing Play offs can add over 8k at premium prices. It did last season and is the reason why Ticket revenue was much higher last season. If the team had gone up they would have sold out to season tickets that would have been at a higher price, then locking the core in at higher price thereafter. Because the team promised so much last season, fans had already renewed - and at higher price anyway for another Championship season.
However Steve has now got a poor side, having a poor season. He realises there will no longer be the bumper matchday sales, no clamour for more season cards and so is going to take a revenue hit next season after enjoying 27k crowds to date this season.
He may feel he needs additional revenue. If he has fewer match by match sales, then he can only charge his core SC's more and retain the matchday obscene premium and perpetuate his silly model.
If he is going to do that (rather than actually narrow that matchday premium to entice people to come), then it was imperative that he went on a charm offensive to persuade that core to renew.
So what does Steve do?
Sends a bald cold email pitching a price increase, ludicrous deadline and a payment option at a premium. This after selling his best 2 No10's.
Then he delays the deadline by a fortnight and thinks he has responded appropriately. Magnanimous Steve.
So now a significant element of the core will not renew. Minimal new SC's will be sold and SC revenue will fall.
Fewer walk ups will come than did this season or last - and revenue will significantly fall.
And Steve will sit with his arms folded wondering why his model isn't working.
In 2016 he got lucky - he deserved the luck. He had listened to Kenyon, speculated and hit the jackpot. It was a reboot opportunity.
He then did the exact opposite to what Brighton did and we entered a period where everything he decided turned to ****.
The losses since that relegation in 2016 have cost him £75.8m. This would have been higher had he not offset the losses against Group for Tax benefits attributed to the club.
Having got into the position last April where he had that sweetspot of engagement of a bigger crowd with a higher quality team and manager, it beggars belief how the last 9 months have played out.
He does pay for his mistakes. He pays an awful lot. He just never seems to learn, or listen.
His description of Gibson's mindset is spot on.
Steve has become very wealthy through transporting waste/dangerous fluids.
He has absolutely no consumer/shopper understanding or expertise.
He is so far removed from normal society he has no grasp how people think and how they make their decisions. He has no empathy.
He tolerates nobody challenging him.
His whole thinking revolves around keeping a core customer base hooked in forever, while milking anybody that pays for the first time or pays less often than every possible opportunity.
You are either fully signed in, or fair game to be ripped off.
Those fully signed in still pay more than most fans at other clubs, but the level of premium that anybody else who goes has to pay beggars belief.
This then gets those who join in paying a lot of unbudgeted money and Steve smiles. A big crowd sniffing Play offs can add over 8k at premium prices. It did last season and is the reason why Ticket revenue was much higher last season. If the team had gone up they would have sold out to season tickets that would have been at a higher price, then locking the core in at higher price thereafter. Because the team promised so much last season, fans had already renewed - and at higher price anyway for another Championship season.
However Steve has now got a poor side, having a poor season. He realises there will no longer be the bumper matchday sales, no clamour for more season cards and so is going to take a revenue hit next season after enjoying 27k crowds to date this season.
He may feel he needs additional revenue. If he has fewer match by match sales, then he can only charge his core SC's more and retain the matchday obscene premium and perpetuate his silly model.
If he is going to do that (rather than actually narrow that matchday premium to entice people to come), then it was imperative that he went on a charm offensive to persuade that core to renew.
So what does Steve do?
Sends a bald cold email pitching a price increase, ludicrous deadline and a payment option at a premium. This after selling his best 2 No10's.
Then he delays the deadline by a fortnight and thinks he has responded appropriately. Magnanimous Steve.
So now a significant element of the core will not renew. Minimal new SC's will be sold and SC revenue will fall.
Fewer walk ups will come than did this season or last - and revenue will significantly fall.
And Steve will sit with his arms folded wondering why his model isn't working.
In 2016 he got lucky - he deserved the luck. He had listened to Kenyon, speculated and hit the jackpot. It was a reboot opportunity.
He then did the exact opposite to what Brighton did and we entered a period where everything he decided turned to ****.
The losses since that relegation in 2016 have cost him £75.8m. This would have been higher had he not offset the losses against Group for Tax benefits attributed to the club.
Having got into the position last April where he had that sweetspot of engagement of a bigger crowd with a higher quality team and manager, it beggars belief how the last 9 months have played out.
He does pay for his mistakes. He pays an awful lot. He just never seems to learn, or listen.
The_Lizards_Jumpers
Well-known member
You're assuming that people think finishing 5th or 6th is any different to finishing mid-table - I dont think they do, the net result is the same - another season in the Championship.
Extend my example teams to something like Millwall or QPR they just exist in the Championship, the same as us, whilst we may finish above them season after season it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, but we pay more for the same result in one of the poorest areas in the country.
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People might not feel too differently between an 8th place finish and a 12th place finish, but people definitely feel differently between a 12th place finish and a 5th place finish (or 4th place like last season). Especially when it really feels like there we are on an upward trajectory (like last season).
If Boro finish somewhere between 8th->14th which feels probable, then it is certain that Boro fans as a whole will feel really disappointed with the season. Last season, putting the disappointment of the play-off semi aside, there was a huge feeling of togetherness and excitement around the Club. As if we were really moving forwards. No one could say that they honestly feel that now.
Unravel_Morrison
Well-known member
The_Lizards_Jumpers
Well-known member
Humpty
Well-known member
The club really don't make that much per head on the concourse. So the arguement about more punter = more revenue to cover the reduction in price, doesn't really stand up.
FishofContemplation
Well-known member
Well, if you think getting to the play-offs and not getting to the play-offs are the same, that is where we won’t agree.
As others have pointed out elsewhere, it is close to impossible now to achieve automatic promotion without parachute payments so the playoffs is in practice where it’s at for the rest. Obviously, the point of getting to the playoffs is to win the damn things, and we haven’t managed that in the last six years, but to argue that this means that getting into them is no better than not getting to them or even, as three of your clubs have done, having a stint in league 1, is a little bit reductionist for me. Will just have to agree to differ on that one.
The_Lizards_Jumpers
Well-known member
But again you're just focusing on the on the pitch results, I'm trying to balance it with the prices the club charge.
I know we have no god given right to be promoted, even through the play offs, but we exist alongside other clubs of a similar stature / even smaller than us yet we pay the highest price of all of them to watch effectively the same thing.
You're right we probably wont agree on this, but good that we can have that discussion without name calling as is often the way on here.
The Ruthsayer
Well-known member
You can’t get served at the concourse, so more punters won’t increase turnover.
The_Lizards_Jumpers
Well-known member
Or when you can, they've ran out of what you wanted - that's the other alternative.
Re: club shop/volumes and I know I've referenced the shop previously, but another small scale example of pi*s up in a brewery was rge Chelsea hone game.
The club advertised scarves at £12 as part of the fan initiated bring a scarf night.
Me and my lad went in the shop at 7pm - no scarves. Assistant said "we got enough stick in but it's been mental". I pointed out that they clearly hadn't ordered sufficient and was assured that yes, they had, but it had been busier than expected.
My point being - if we fully utilised our retail revenue streams, it may help avoid constant ticket price increases.
We are utterly shambolic on the retail element. The Fanzone bar was a good idea, but now make it a permanent structure, install heaters etc etc
The club advertised scarves at £12 as part of the fan initiated bring a scarf night.
Me and my lad went in the shop at 7pm - no scarves. Assistant said "we got enough stick in but it's been mental". I pointed out that they clearly hadn't ordered sufficient and was assured that yes, they had, but it had been busier than expected.
My point being - if we fully utilised our retail revenue streams, it may help avoid constant ticket price increases.
We are utterly shambolic on the retail element. The Fanzone bar was a good idea, but now make it a permanent structure, install heaters etc etc
How much of that is because they don't want to compared to because the offer is atrocious? The queues are slow, the product is naff and the prices are really high. I eat when I go to the match regularly but never in the concourse. I drink before I go to the match but never in the concourse. I drink after the match but never in the concourse. I never get a drink at half time because while 15 mins is enough to drink a pint it isn't enough to queue for one unless you miss 5 mins either side of half time. This isn't just a Boro thing because every ground is the same but they seem to have convinced themselves that it is the best way to run things but it can't be.
I think there are levels to a season that decides how fans feel about it. A team is either an automatic contender, a playoff contender, a relegation candidate or none of the above. Fans are happy when they are an auto contender like we were last season and like we were under Karanka. Fans are not particularly happy when they sneak in and expect to get beat like we did under Pulis and like we could do this season. Finishing 6th and then losing a match you expect to lose against Leeds/Southampton really won't feel much different to finishing 8th. It's very different if you win that match and you feel like you have a chance, that's when the good feeling starts.
The_Lizards_Jumpers
Well-known member
ILOVEJUNINHO!
Well-known member
Fans should Just use the £300 plus they would definitely have found to go to Wembley, which is no longer needed, to fund the £30 extra they cannot find to pay for your ST renewal. Everyone is a winner 
Otto42
Well-known member
Exactly. Growing a global fan base would have made us more sale able too. As you point out ideal opportunity when we were EPL and European regulars - even then getting official merchandise and tickets was based on a demographic who lived on Teesside!
Although we failed in promotion last season, I was positive about the season overall as we had progressed. We moved forward as a club. We went from 7th -> 4th. From outside the play-offs to achieving Play-offs. We played good football that looked like we could beat anyone at any time. We had a manager in place who looked like he had a plan and was progressive. We had scored 2.0 PPG since Carrick had taken over which is genuine promotion form. If we could carry that into the next season we were going to be in the mix. The type of players we had signed were exciting, particularly the players we had on loan.
This season, not only have we failed in promotion (well 99% certain that we will fail in promotion), we have regressed as a club. We have dropped totally out of promotion contention. The football is no where the level we were at this time last year and seems to be getting worse as the season progresses. The players we've signed on the whole are sub-standard, we have holes all over the squad and we know even more holes will made made in the coming months. I feel far less optimistic about next season.
So to answer your post. No, last season was not seen as a "big fat fail". This season is....