Be very, very careful what people tell you about Electric Vehicles.

J

JustTheGent

Well-known member
A couple of years ago, there was a guy on here claiming you could get a new high end and premium EV for pretty much the same price as something much cheaper. This is despite the cost being significantly more, two or three times as much and more in some cases. You could apparently do this using something called TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) which takes all costs of the vehicle during the time you have it into account, including depreciation.

There was several of us on here warning against this. TCO figures can be selective and unreliable, especially when dealing with such things as depreciation. The reasoning behind it didn't make sense and it was based on circular logic. Getting a vehicle brand new with monthly payments is generally always the most expensive way to go. Obviously, the more you pay means the greater the cost. You don't pay more and spend the same or less, which what was ridiculously being suggested.

Anyway, over the last few months I've been hearing of people who have lost a lot of money on their vehicle. Money they couldn't afford to spend or lose. The link below is actually about someone who got the same vehicle that was been touted on here - a Porsche Taycan.

 
Last edited:
He seems to trust car salesman rather than thinking for himself. He's right about the residuals though. Who is going to fork out good money 2nd hand when you can't measure the battery degredation?
 
JustTheGent said:
A couple of years ago, there was a guy on here claiming you could get a new high end and premium EV for pretty much the same price as something much cheaper. This is despite the cost being significantly more, two or three times as much and more in some cases. You could apparently do this using something called TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) which takes all costs of the vehicle during the time you have it into account, including depreciation.

There was several of us on here warning against this. The reasoning behind it didn't make sense and it was based on circular logic. Getting a vehicle brand new with monthly payments is generally always the most expensive way to go. Obviously, the more you pay means the greater the cost. You don't pay more and spend the same or less, which what was ridiculously being suggested.

Anyway, over the last few months I've been hearing of people who have lost a lot of money on their vehicle. Money they couldn't afford to spend or lose. The link below is actually about someone who got the same vehicle that was been touted on here - a Porsche Taycan.

Click to expand...
Let it go
 
I like the EV technology but not necessarily the price. Tesla has recently brought down the cost on the starter vehicles in the Tesla range but perhaps it was a little too late. California however does have a $7500 tax credit but I’m told it’s not across the EV range of vehicles.

I think overtime the EV purchase costs will significantly come down but it’s based on a lot of factors such as the price of batteries and other hardware items. Then there’s the slippery situation with the chip supply chain, not to mention the insurance costs are higher than your regular petrol engine vehicles.

The problem with all these EV development companies is that they underestimated the total cost of the design phase in particular the software development which probably was mishandled by many startups.

I’ve worked with many of them and saw that they employed a lot of junior engineers straight from Uni, who while well educated definitely weren’t experienced enough with software and the tools for analysis etc.

Therefore many of the EV software projects were filled with coding errors that were largely unfixable. This meant companies were forced to delay production which basically drove up the final vehicle release costs.

The EV industry will continue to have high cost of ownership until they have matured enough where the industry can ultimately trust their product.
 
The article below is from back in June, but 29 out of 30 of the fastest depreciating were EVs. They lost on average 33.6% of their value over 6 months compared to 0.5% with petrol vehicles. The Porsche Taycan is listed as losing over £20k in 6 months.

cardealermagazine.co.uk

29 of top 30 biggest used car price drops in last six months are electric vehicles – Car Dealer Magazine

A worrying 29 of the top 30 biggest depreciating used cars in the last six months are electric – with some losing nearly 40 per cent of their value. The
cardealermagazine.co.uk
 
I bought a brand new EV then sold it after 2 or 3 months. The charging infrastructure just isn't there. That's the fault of the government more than anything else.
 
The bloke in the video probably picked the worst possible time to buy a Taycan. There are a few reasons for the depreciation. Most of which probably should have been predicted but the EV enthusiasts are just as blinded as the EV deniers.

• The tax benefits of electric cars mean a lot of ex lease cars are now hitting the second hand market
• Rapid advancements in the technology means older models are quickly being replaced with 2nd and 3rd versions hitting the 2nd hand market
• The chip supply and production capacity issues were driving up prices even before you consider the impact of Covid are pretty much over now
• The battery and design advancements mean costs to produce new models is reducing quickly, especially with the Chinese manufacturers

The good news is that as long as you’re not buying brand new, there are some real bargains hitting the market now as evidenced by the video in the original post. They are not for everyone but if you’re not making regular trips of hundreds of miles, there will be a suitable model for you.
 
MoggasDog said:
I bought a brand new EV then sold it after 2 or 3 months. The charging infrastructure just isn't there. That's the fault of the government more than anything else.
Click to expand...
Genuinely interested mate, was that the only reason you sold it after 2-3 months?

You must have taken a big hit on cost / losses so that would have been a big decision?
 
MoggasDog said:
I bought a brand new EV then sold it after 2 or 3 months. The charging infrastructure just isn't there. That's the fault of the government more than anything else.
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm also interested in this. When did you buy your car? Did you have a home charger? What was the range of your car? How many miles a week were you doing and how long were your average trips? Did you have a brand that was compatible to use the Tesla Supercharger network?

I am lucky enough to have access to the Tesla Supercharger network and really can't fault that at all. However, my next car probbaly won't be a Tesla and I'm not overly concerned about the state of the charging infrastructure as it is improving all the time.
 
B17er said:
Yes, I'm also interested in this. When did you buy your car? Did you have a home charger? What was the range of your car? How many miles a week were you doing and how long were your average trips? Did you have a brand that was compatible to use the Tesla Supercharger network?

I am lucky enough to have access to the Tesla Supercharger network and really can't fault that at all. However, my next car probbaly won't be a Tesla and I'm not overly concerned about the state of the charging infrastructure as it is improving all the time.
Click to expand...
I bought an Ioniq 5 which is a fantastic car, by the way. I bought it in July 2022 and sold it in October 2022. The range was over 200 miles but dropped quite a bit in the cold because the version I had didnt have a heat pump.
I am sure things improve with access to the tesla superchargers but, of course, thats only for teslas.
I found that I would often get to a charging station on the motorway to find quite a queue. Of course, this was often a free for all as people would turn up and see an empty space and drive straight into it, not knowing that there had been quite a few people waiting to use it. Charging during working hours was a problem, especially on the motorway. The delays could be an hour at a time.
Visiting my parents in Middlesbrough also became a problem because there are 6 decent chargers nearby. All charging around 50p/kwh. They were often tied up with people charging or our of service.
It just wasnt practical, for me. I found I would have to charge at night to ensure a connection, which was inconvenient.
I have a 7kw charger at home because I have a PHEV and my wife has a Nissan Leaf. All is fantastic if you can travel to somewhere that is range of the car and you can just charge it at home. But out and about on the motorways starts to get very silly.
I just didnt like the fact that every place I went, I worried about how and when to charge the car. It all has to be planned and timed.

@Tryasize10
EDIT: I should add that I took advantage of the sky high second hand car prices, at the time, when I sold my car. I basically sold it for what I paid for it which is what made it an easy decision.
Nowadays, EVs are plummeting in price as soon as you drive them away from the dealer.
 
Thanks for your detailed reply, because like I said my next car won't be a Tesla because I can't afford the lease prices now compared to when I got mine. So, I have been looking at other makes and I think I have been spoilt by the Tesla Supercharging - I very rarely worry about charging. I just type in where I want to go and it tells me which charger to go to and for how long and even prepares the battery for charging. Other brands don't have this from the research I have done and honestly that is in car functionality is my main concern. When I have charged I often see loads of Gridserve empty stalls hence my comment about the infrastructure improving.

I should also say that even Tesla superchargers have that problem about there being no queing system\etiquette. Scotch corner can be a nightmare when busy. I have seen people parking in front of cars that are charging to show they are waiting!
 
B17er said:
Thanks for your detailed reply, because like I said my next car won't be a Tesla because I can't afford the lease prices now compared to when I got mine. So, I have been looking at other makes and I think I have been spoilt by the Tesla Supercharging - I very rarely worry about charging. I just type in where I want to go and it tells me which charger to go to and for how long and even prepares the battery for charging. Other brands don't have this from the research I have done and honestly that is in car functionality is my main concern. When I have charged I often see loads of Gridserve empty stalls hence my comment about the infrastructure improving.

I should also say that even Tesla superchargers have that problem about there being no queing system\etiquette. Scotch corner can be a nightmare when busy. I have seen people parking in front of cars that are charging to show they are waiting!
Click to expand...
You might like to look at the costs of non-Tesla chargers, too. :oops:
I was watching a road review last week and they were getting charged 75p/kwh, 85p/kwh. It is outrageous but, of course, this is bound to happen when it is left solely to the private sector. The government just doesnt seem to have acted on this, at all.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top