Bercow defects to Labour - Did not see that coming

indeedido said:
I couldn't care less what Berkow or his wife have done. I am more than happy for it to undermine Johnson.
But to say the referendum and the election were not democratic is laughable.
Whether they should have been the exact voting processes and whether they should be constructed the way they were may be debatable, but they were democratic.
The processes gave massive power to the victors. It seems people don't like the way that power has been used. Thankfully (very) those in power will be judged by their actions at the next election which is a maximum of three and half years away.

Personally I would hope Johnson and most of his cabinet are decisively ousted, as I detest the way they operate in power, but the truth is they are there democratically and to say otherwise could be either stupid, or deliberately blind; but not absolutely of course, as absolutes are only for idiots.
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How can you possibly describe the UK electoral system as democratic?
 
NYboro said:
You would describe 43% of the vote giving a massive majority democratic?
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Exactly the same share of the vote that Blair got in 1997.
I don't like the way the power has been used/abused, but the objection you have can only be about the voting system. Are you really saying this country has never been a democracy?
 
indeedido said:
Exactly the same share of the vote that Blair got in 1997.
I don't like the way the power has been used/abused, but the objection you have can only be about the voting system. Are you really saying this country has never been a democracy?
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Yes - it has never been a true democracy. Nor yet has the United States. Blair has absolutely nothing to do with the premise.
 
NYboro said:
Yes - it has never been a true democracy. Nor yet has the United States. Blair has absolutely nothing to do with the premise.
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Blair was rightly democratically elected, as was Johnson, as have been all of our majority Governments.
You don't like the mechanism, which has not changed, so you refuse to accept it is a democracy.
 
indeedido said:
Blair was rightly democratically elected, as was Johnson, as have been all of our majority Governments.
You don't like the mechanism, which has not changed, so you refuse to accept it is a democracy.
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It isn't a democracy if the will of the people is not respected.

Most people did not want this government. Just 28.5% of voters give a government an 80 seat majority. The argument about people too lazy to vote is nonsense; the majority of people in this country can not get represented by their party of choice and their vote is a waste of time. Every vote should count; that's democracy.
 
indeedido said:
Blair was rightly democratically elected, as was Johnson, as have been all of our majority Governments.
You don't like the mechanism, which has not changed, so you refuse to accept it is a democracy.
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Correct. It isn’t. And it’s not a majority by any test other than the arbitrary FPTP constituency lines that as we are seeing can and are being changed. Any system that provides absolute power on the back of a minority percentage of the vote isn’t a true democratic process.

NYboro said:
That is 43% of those who turned out.
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Oh dear. He’s had another stinker!
 
bear66 said:
It isn't a democracy if the will of the people is not respected.

Most people did not want this government. Just 28.5% of voters give a government an 80 seat majority. The argument about people too lazy to vote is nonsense; the majority of people in this country can not get represented by their party of choice and their vote is a waste of time. Every vote should count; that's democracy.
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There are millions of people in this country whose vote has never been heard. Never mattered. Those that have never voted for a ‘winner’. That anyone can describe that as democratic with a straight face is flabbergasting.
 
indeedido said:
Blair was rightly democratically elected, as was Johnson, as have been all of our majority Governments.
You don't like the mechanism, which has not changed, so you refuse to accept it is a democracy.
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"Democracy" is having the right to be heard and to be represented. (y)
 
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