Bernie meets..... Philip Tallentire (Karanka stuff)

atypical_boro

atypical_boro

Well-known member
Odd that he has chosen to interview a postman from Teesdale :)......but anyway.

Its been on my playlist since it was released just after Christmas, but I've finally got round to listening to it. Lots of discussion and insight about the Karanka era.

One thing that I noted was that Philip had a strong feeling Karanka was angling to go long before Gibson actually dropped the axe (and presumably was never going to quit without compensation).

It got me thinking, how should clubs deal with this? You can incentivise a manager to perform well, by giving him a promotion or survival bonus, but if he realises that achievement is not realistic and starts deliberately underperforming (or just not caring) you still can't really sack them without paying them compensation, unless you have concrete evidence that they have committed an act of misconduct (hard to prove).

You can't really try to put in a manager's contract that if he fails to keep you up he has to pay the club a chunk of compensation - can you? Or if you did, you'd have to expect it to inflate their basic wage for them to agree to sign it.

Tricky one isn't it, as so much rides on the roles of the manager. Even if it is, at best, overstated. ;)

Some of the podcast is actually really interesting, though the more I read/hear about Aitor since he left from various sources, the more he comes across as a total coont and/or just wasn't cut out for management. Was it just a case of beginner's luck that we benefitted from? Since the autumn of 2016 there's very little evidence to suggest otherwise.
 
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The 2 episodes of Bernie's 'Total BS' podcast - from 9th January and 16th January. Unfortunately, the Wolfman has forgotten to title the first one as 'Tallentire - part one', but the 9th January is the first part.

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Total BS

Listen to Total BS on Spotify. Discussing MFC and my opinions of the game, I will also interview Boro greats from the past.
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Last time I’m writing a big long thought-provoking OP like that then!

We’ve obviously all moved on from Karanka now if he can be slagged off with no challenge now. 😁😂
 
atypical_boro said:
Odd that he h

It got me thinking, how should clubs deal with this? You can incentivise a manager to perform well, by giving him a promotion or survival bonus, but if he realises that achievement is not realistic and starts deliberately underperforming (or just not caring) you still can't really sack them without paying them compensation, unless you have concrete evidence that they have committed an act of misconduct (hard to prove).
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But survival wasn't unrealistic he chose to make it so, by signing a load of rubbish Spaniards (some of whom couldn't even take free kicks) and creating massive unrest in the dressing room.
 
The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
But survival wasn't unrealistic he chose to make it so, by signing a load of rubbish Spaniards (some of whom couldn't even take free kicks) and creating massive unrest in the dressing room.
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I don’t think he intentionally chose to make survival unrealistic though. I wonder at what point he decided we couldn’t stay up? January because he didn’t get the players he wanted? Still a bit early to just give up the ghost and take the severance pay.

But what CAN club do about this?
 
atypical_boro said:
Yeah. Lots have gradually complained about his personal conduct over the years.
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In my limited interactions I noted a real change - maybe it was the pressure of the job. But initially I recall being really surprised at his open friendliness. I was one of many invited to open training at Hurworth and as I was watching the action I suddenly realised that he had wandered over to shake my hand. I remember other incidents like that including when he thanked me for extending best wishes to him from the fans in a press conference after his walk out.
But there was no time for friendly chat in the final season. He had meetings to attend. I suppose it was an increasingly pressured situation and it showed.
I was told recently by a former member of staff that the feeling was that Karanka didn't want a relegation on his CV and did as much as he could to force the situation of his dismissal from the club.
 
The players signed in 2016-17 season were mainly poor signings, the budget too small.
The summer outlay was pathetic and the January dallying still left us lowest PL spenders.
We simply didn't have enough going forward and Karanka could only keep us tight through 2016.
I don't think Karanka was blameless, but I am certain he needed much much better support after promotion. If Gibson had doubts he should have parted company in the May of 2016.
 
indeedido said:
The players signed in 2016-17 season were mainly poor signings, the budget too small.
The summer outlay was pathetic and the January dallying still left us lowest PL spenders.
We simply didn't have enough going forward and Karanka could only keep us tight through 2016.
I don't think Karanka was blameless, but I am certain he needed much much better support after promotion. If Gibson had doubts he should have parted company in the May of 2016.
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Probably right in hindsight but how would the fans have viewed that days after the Brighton game?
 
fmttmadmin said:
In my limited interactions I noted a real change - maybe it was the pressure of the job. But initially I recall being really surprised at his open friendliness. I was one of many invited to open training at Hurworth and as I was watching the action I suddenly realised that he had wandered over to shake my hand. I remember other incidents like that including when he thanked me for extending best wishes to him from the fans in a press conference after his walk out.
But there was no time for friendly chat in the final season. He had meetings to attend. I suppose it was an increasingly pressured situation and it showed.
I was told recently by a former member of staff that the feeling was that Karanka didn't want a relegation on his CV and did as much as he could to force the situation of his dismissal from the club.
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That's insightful, cheers. It is a real shame he has now just become a former manager, at one time it looked like he could become a real legendary figure.
 
I have not listened to this yet. But I have said this before - Karanka was great initially, but if you read the interviews at the time his method of management was never going to work long term. He was a control freak and seemed unable or unwilling to relinquish control of anything major. In the short term this may buy you success, but it is no way to go about things in the long term and it was only ever going to lead to him being burnt out. The pressure of the Premiership when you lose more often than you win meant that the manager was going to come under intense pressure no matter what the management style, but as an over controlling manager this pressure built up to breaking point.

I still like Karanka and wish him all the success. The 2 seasons in the championship that led to promotion were brilliant. But (as mentioned above) the weird recruitment strategy and overly negative tactics when we got there resulted in an awful depressing season.

Anyway - I will have a listen to this at some point.
 
I can’t help but look back on the Karanka period as a great for years for us, yes he had his flaws, who doesn’t? But I’ve not felt as close to a Boro team than I did with that one for years… until now.

I’ll give this a listen later, I also think that the Gazette’s best years content wise was during that era. So be interesting to hear what PT says.
 
The thing with Tallentire he was close with a few of the local lads downing etc so I always took what he said with a pinch of salt and still do.
 
With all contracts with managers it is impossible to insert performance related clauses in - they just wont sign them and certainly the managers association wouldn't advise them to.
 
Steer said:
I have not listened to this yet. But I have said this before - Karanka was great initially, but if you read the interviews at the time his method of management was never going to work long term. He was a control freak and seemed unable or unwilling to relinquish control of anything major. In the short term this may buy you success, but it is no way to go about things in the long term and it was only ever going to lead to him being burnt out. The pressure of the Premiership when you lose more often than you win meant that the manager was going to come under intense pressure no matter what the management style, but as an over controlling manager this pressure built up to breaking point.

I still like Karanka and wish him all the success. The 2 seasons in the championship that led to promotion were brilliant. But (as mentioned above) the weird recruitment strategy and overly negative tactics when we got there resulted in an awful depressing season.

Anyway - I will have a listen to this at some point.
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Its a good listen. Definitely one of the best interviews Slaven has done in my view. The one he did with Mark Proctor where they discussed the sort of wheelbarrows they tend to use when they're helping each other do their gardens was less intriguing. :) :ROFLMAO:
 
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