Blackpool Illuminations - Racism claim

Erimus74 said:
Just seems so eone has to be offended, just the way it is today
Click to expand...
Can't help but disagree with this attitude and others like it that I see bandied about constantly.

It's more that someone probably IS offended, because a lot of stuff IS offensive. As someone who nearly left this board because of a few comments off Smalltown, surely you can understand how visiting an attraction that may (haven't read the details) poke fun at your races historical culture may be a lot more impactful than smalltown calling you names? If they are offended they've every right to complain.


Anytime people bring up stuff like this I can't help but think back to what it must have been like changing attitudes from slavery, or even segregation, womens rights etc

it's easy to say it's not offensive and things are getting "daft" when you are a white male.

Dara O'Briain posted this earlier which time me shows that it's isn't a sudden "snowflake" reaction that things are now offensive and it also doesn't mean the end of comedy because you have to stop doing things. Everyone is so quick to bring up being woke, cancel culture, bandy about snowflake insults etc

https://twitter.com/x/status/1451994949709221888

the Washington red skins another classic example, name now changed after very long running campaign.

m.youtube.com

Proud To Be (Mascots)

Watch the #BigGame commercial the NFL would never air. Get involved by contacting the Washington Professional Football Team, the NFL and the Washington Post:...
m.youtube.com m.youtube.com

"It's PC gawnnnn madddddd" etc
 
Corco65 said:
I would agree HV but also believe it is a much broader white western problem.
Click to expand...

As someone who lives overseas and travels a wee bit, to think these kind of issues are only relevant to white westerners is a bit narrow minded. Your longer previous post was well thought out and excellent however.

There are elements in the media overhyping these things and there are also people who like to be offended about small issues, it’s a two way street and social media laps it up as it gains likes/comments/retweets etc - both sides sometimes have valid points, but both sides frequently show pettiness from the discourse I witness online. This one really isn’t a simple right v left debate.

I have little experience of NA culture so it’s not for me to say whether there was anything offensive or not, I doubt any offence was intended and I do know that offence is a right to be taken and given but that does not always mean others necessarily have to change. Two complaints from NA’s is hardly a representative sample of their entire cultures and peoples, so maybe the Blackpool organisers could contact some large NA groups to try and gauge if they could do anything different, or not as the case may be.
 
Corco65 said:
I suspect most people who have commented on this thread know very little about the native American history/culture, I certainly don't although I have watched some very interesting interesting and informative programmes which challenged my previously held understanding.

Most people will have received their understanding from the modern 'American' version and the government propaganda that has been pumped out and through Hollywood and cowboy films etc.

The reality that native American's tell is a completely different one but their voice is often quashed or silenced just like many are doing on this thread. I believe for most of those people it is not done out of malice but through ignorance due to how are thinking has been programmed.

Native Americans were slaughtered on their own land which was then stolen off them, now think about that and then think about cowboy
films and who were the bad guys and how they were depicted, I know for me when I was growing up, how that helped me form my opinion of who the heroes and who enemy was.

Now getting back to the article it doesn't provide any real context about the complaint and it doesn't seem like it was the complainants who went to the BBC so we don't know very much. However some people here seem to be upset about someone complaining and have being automatically dismissive or feeling it's about a woke or cancel culture at play yet are happy to hold up their right to complain about someone else complaining!

I always feel it is good to listen and explore and really try and understand a different perspective, I don't always do it and I don't always do it successfully, but if I struggle with itt and then overcome my automatic defensiveness which is uncomfortable but I manage to do occasions then I come to a much richer and appreciative understanding of others.

If anyone is genuinely interested in challenging yourself and would care to take an hour of your time, there are plenty of programmes/books that I think most people would find interesting and thought provoking that present at totally different perspective of native American history and culture, if you do find the time and have the inclination to be curious it would be really interesting if you came back to this thread and offered some further comment and again in the way you seem fit.

Let's keep talking, challenging each other respectively, caring for each other and learning as we often do on here and if we to want to make a change for the better, I believe we need to start with ourselves as difficult as that is.
Click to expand...
As usual @Corco65 & as @American_Mary does, you always put across a valid, polite & well thought out post, far better than i could ever do
 
Corco65 said:
I suspect most people who have commented on this thread know very little about the native American history/culture, I certainly don't although I have watched some very interesting interesting and informative programmes which challenged my previously held understanding.

Most people will have received their understanding from the modern 'American' version and the government propaganda that has been pumped out and through Hollywood and cowboy films etc.

The reality that native American's tell is a completely different one but their voice is often quashed or silenced just like many are doing on this thread. I believe for most of those people it is not done out of malice but through ignorance due to how are thinking has been programmed.

Native Americans were slaughtered on their own land which was then stolen off them, now think about that and then think about cowboy
films and who were the bad guys and how they were depicted, I know for me when I was growing up, how that helped me form my opinion of who the heroes and who enemy was.

Now getting back to the article it doesn't provide any real context about the complaint and it doesn't seem like it was the complainants who went to the BBC so we don't know very much. However some people here seem to be upset about someone complaining and have being automatically dismissive or feeling it's about a woke or cancel culture at play yet are happy to hold up their right to complain about someone else complaining!

I always feel it is good to listen and explore and really try and understand a different perspective, I don't always do it and I don't always do it successfully, but if I struggle with itt and then overcome my automatic defensiveness which is uncomfortable but I manage to do occasions then I come to a much richer and appreciative understanding of others.

If anyone is genuinely interested in challenging yourself and would care to take an hour of your time, there are plenty of programmes/books that I think most people would find interesting and thought provoking that present at totally different perspective of native American history and culture, if you do find the time and have the inclination to be curious it would be really interesting if you came back to this thread and offered some further comment and again in the way you seem fit.

Let's keep talking, challenging each other respectively, caring for each other and learning as we often do on here and if we to want to make a change for the better, I believe we need to start with ourselves as difficult as that is.
Click to expand...

Good post, but do most people really still think cowboys = good, indians (as called in the movies) = bad?

I 'd be surprised if most people didnt at least have some awareness of how native Americans were absolutely shafted and have been misrepresented in the movies.

I've known that my entire adult life and I'm certainly no expert. Just assumed it was common knowledge these days? It's quite possible im being naive though and just giving people too much credit.
 
festa5 said:
Good post, but do most people really still think cowboys = good, indians (as called in the movies) = bad?

I 'd be surprised if most people didnt at least have some awareness of how native Americans were absolutely shafted and have been misrepresented in the movies.

I've known that my entire adult life and I'm certainly no expert. Just assumed it was common knowledge these days? It's quite possible im being naive though and just giving people too much credit.
Click to expand...
I would like to think this was the case F5, but I don't think it is, I could be wrong. It certainly wasn't for me bar the occasional reference, the gravity just doesn't hit home until actively discovering more about the actual reality.
 
Smoggle said:
As someone who lives overseas and travels a wee bit, to think these kind of issues are only relevant to white westerners is a bit narrow minded. Your longer previous post was well thought out and excellent however.

There are elements in the media overhyping these things and there are also people who like to be offended about small issues, it’s a two way street and social media laps it up as it gains likes/comments/retweets etc - both sides sometimes have valid points, but both sides frequently show pettiness from the discourse I witness online. This one really isn’t a simple right v left debate.

I have little experience of NA culture so it’s not for me to say whether there was anything offensive or not, I doubt any offence was intended and I do know that offence is a right to be taken and given but that does not always mean others necessarily have to change. Two complaints from NA’s is hardly a representative sample of their entire cultures and peoples, so maybe the Blackpool organisers could contact some large NA groups to try and gauge if they could do anything different, or not as the case may be.
Click to expand...
There is no doubt discrimination and prejudice across many different parts of the world in many guises, however I was referring to the white western world and it's view on people of different colour.

The Ashley Banjo programme last week regarding Diversity's - BLM performance, seems just about where we are as a country with race at the moment and Jim Davidson attitude appears very typical on many, the only difference being he is prepared to say it.
 
Corco65 said:
There is no doubt discrimination and prejudice across many different parts of the world in many guises, however I was referring to the white western world and it's view on people of different colour.

The Ashley Banjo programme last week regarding Diversity's - BLM performance, seems just about where we are as a country with race at the moment and Jim Davidson attitude appears very typical on many, the only difference being he is prepared to say it.
Click to expand...

With reference to the western world, I have no doubt that there’s a nasty undercurrent in many countries with a range of reasons why. The UK certainly experiences bigotry and there are elements with political clout that either facilitate the problem or at least don’t help.

That said, the west is at the most tolerant it’s ever been right now, more tolerant than anywhere else I’ve been, and only getting more tolerant despite some recent bumps. We have a way to go and much to learn of course, attitudes don’t change overnight but there have been massive positive changes even in my (<40) lifetime. In my experience the Jim Davidson’s are a minority, admittedly a loud and obnoxious one that has been emboldened recently, but there’s a reason people like him are on the entertainment fringes nowadays… I was going to add that I believe they’ll go the way of the dinosaurs but it seems a shame to tar them with JD’s sh*tty brush!
 
Corco65 said:
I would like to think this was the case F5, but I don't think it is, I could be wrong. It certainly wasn't for me bar the occasional reference, the gravity just doesn't hit home until actively discovering more about the actual reality.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. Suppose I've always had an interest in history and I do find native American history and culture interesting. As I say I'm not an expert, but anything I come across on TV, books, magazines etc I tend to notice and pay attention to, so maybe I'm just basing that view through my own lens.

I do think the vast majority of fairly modern films/tv attempt to tell the story accurately though. Think Dances with Wolves was one of the first to set the ball rolling. I'm guessing it's probably not even that accurate but it at least tries to change the narrative and tell it from the native American perspective. Which was quite unusual at the time.
 
Smoggle said:
With reference to the western world, I have no doubt that there’s a nasty undercurrent in many countries with a range of reasons why. The UK certainly experiences bigotry and there are elements with political clout that either facilitate the problem or at least don’t help.

That said, the west is at the most tolerant it’s ever been right now, more tolerant than anywhere else I’ve been, and only getting more tolerant despite some recent bumps. We have a way to go and much to learn of course, attitudes don’t change overnight but there have been massive positive changes even in my (<40) lifetime. In my experience the Jim Davidson’s are a minority, admittedly a loud and obnoxious one that has been emboldened recently, but there’s a reason people like him are on the entertainment fringes nowadays… I was going to add that I believe they’ll go the way of the dinosaurs but it seems a shame to tar them with JD’s sh*tty brush!
Click to expand...

I would generally agree S, there has been progress and it's great to see people and young people in particular making a stand.

I believe most people aren't directly and consciously racist but there is a lot of defensiveness when black people speak out or offer a challenge, which shows an undercurrent of racism or perhaps a level of fragility when the status quo is challenged.

Unfortunately we still have much deep rooted institutional and structural racism alongside a minority of direct racists. Hopefully over time more and more people who are currently none racist will become anti racist and the embracing (not acceptance or tolerating) of people for who they are and the world becomes a better place for it.
 
Corco65 said:
I would generally agree S, there has been progress and it's great to see people and young people in particular making a stand.

I believe most people aren't directly and consciously racist but there is a lot of defensiveness when black people speak out or offer a challenge, which shows an undercurrent of racism or perhaps a level of fragility when the status quo is challenged.

Unfortunately we still have much deep rooted institutional and structural racism alongside a minority of direct racists. Hopefully over time more and more people who are currently none racist will become anti racist and the embracing (not acceptance or tolerating) of people for who they are and the world becomes a better place for it.
Click to expand...
I loved Southgate's statement just before the Euros for saying basically what you have. That those booing their own team for sharing a 5 second gesture of solidarity with black people are dinosaurs, are on the wrong side of history and will die out.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top