Boro Debt restructured

Duffman said:
What do we make of this?
www.gazettelive.co.uk

Steve Gibson remains as 'committed to Boro as ever' after writing off club debt

Almost £107 million of loans were written off at Middlesbrough last week by converting them into shares
www.gazettelive.co.uk www.gazettelive.co.uk
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I'm no finance expert compared to others on here, and I'm sure ill be corrected if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the debt hasn't been restructured. It's effectively been written off. Restructured would essentially mean it is still owed. For accounting purposes that isn't the case.

It was something the Anti Gibson brigade did used to use as a stick to beat him with though, so from that perspective I'm glad he's done it. But considering he was realistically never gonna call the debt in, its not really changed anything.
 
I wonder whether his partner at Gibson O'Neil doesn't mind all this debt write off, or if as above, the debt was never gonna be repaid. As far as I know, he's not a massive Boro fan like Gibbo and if Boro got sold, Gibbo would pocket the cash. I wonder if the agreement is that if Gibson O'Neil ever gets sold, the other partner will get the bigger share to make up for all these debt write offs???
 
tbh to me it looks like the club a could be up for sale. There would be no need to do it unless you were trying to improve the saleability of the club. As thr debt would always be owed to him and it would never be settled.
 
Domsinoz said:
tbh to me it looks like the club a could be up for sale. There would be no need to do it unless you were trying to improve the saleability of the club. As thr debt would always be owed to him and it would never be settled.
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Steve GIbson said the debt appeared before in the books because it was an accountancy thing - go and talk to him about selling you will be left in no doubt about his heart and soul still being in the club.
 
fmttmadmin said:
Steve GIbson said the debt appeared before in the books because it was an accountancy thing - go and talk to him about selling you will be left in no doubt about his heart and soul still being in the club.
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I’m not questioning that he isn’t. I’m fully behind him and a big Steve Gibson supporter, just seems strange to settle it for no reason when it wouldn’t make a difference financially if he didn’t. It only looks good inthe accounts from the outside. Hence I questioned and raised a possible ulterior motive.
 
Domsinoz said:
I’m not questioning that he isn’t. I’m fully behind him and a big Steve Gibson supporter, just seems strange to settle it for no reason when it wouldn’t make a difference financially if he didn’t. It only looks good inthe accounts from the outside. Hence I questioned and raised a possible ulterior motive.
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He told me this was going to happen several months ago - he said it was basically when the books are published for Gibson and O'Neill and at that point the debt should disappear. He told me this because he was so frustrated that fans thought the club was in his debt or that he was deliberately blocking the club ever being sold.
He gave lots of financial information at the time for me to post on the message board because he wanted to be more transparent and to let everyone know how hard the board was working for the future of the club and just how committed he remains.
Maybe after Christmas we can put some questions from the fans to Steve Gibson - I know that he wants to answer them. I got busy and sidetracked but maybe we can arrange this early next year.
 
fmttmadmin said:
He told me this was going to happen several months ago - he said it was basically when the books are published for Gibson and O'Neill and at that point the debt should disappear. He told me this because he was so frustrated that fans thought the club was in his debt or that he was deliberately blocking the club ever being sold.
He gave lots of financial information at the time for me to post on the message board because he wanted to be more transparent and to let everyone know how hard the board was working for the future of the club and just how committed he remains.
Maybe after Christmas we can put some questions from the fans to Steve Gibson - I know that he wants to answer them. I got busy and sidetracked but maybe we can arrange this early next year.
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why doesnt SG post this info himself
 
Domsinoz said:
I’m not questioning that he isn’t. I’m fully behind him and a big Steve Gibson supporter, just seems strange to settle it for no reason when it wouldn’t make a difference financially if he didn’t. It only looks good inthe accounts from the outside. Hence I questioned and raised a possible ulterior motive.
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It's not necessarily about MFC. The other side of this is that Gibson O'Neil holdings had a huge intercompany loan on their books. HMRC may have asked GON to either collect it or write it off. It was never going to be repaid - nobody would ever buy MFC with a socking great £107 million debt - so the only other option is to convert it to equity.

It will give MFC a bit more headroom with FFP. Indeedido can give you chapter and verse on that.
 
fmttmadmin said:
He told me this was going to happen several months ago - he said it was basically when the books are published for Gibson and O'Neill and at that point the debt should disappear. He told me this because he was so frustrated that fans thought the club was in his debt or that he was deliberately blocking the club ever being sold.
He gave lots of financial information at the time for me to post on the message board because he wanted to be more transparent and to let everyone know how hard the board was working for the future of the club and just how committed he remains.
Maybe after Christmas we can put some questions from the fans to Steve Gibson - I know that he wants to answer them. I got busy and sidetracked but maybe we can arrange this early next year.
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Why cant that lad who does "A Swift Word" do a ten minute questionaire with Gibbo?
Crackin lad would do a great job(y)

1701889681049.png
 
fmttmadmin said:
Steve GIbson said the debt appeared before in the books because it was an accountancy thing - go and talk to him about selling you will be left in no doubt about his heart and soul still being in the club.
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There is probably a few on here that would love to speak with him Rob but they do not have your access privilege's. And please don't take offence at that. I am not knocking you just pointing out that many who would like the opportunity to have a chat with Steve would not be able to do so.
 
Soutra said:
It's not necessarily about MFC. The other side of this is that Gibson O'Neil holdings had a huge intercompany loan on their books. HMRC may have asked GON to either collect it or write it off. It was never going to be repaid - nobody would ever buy MFC with a socking great £107 million debt - so the only other option is to convert it to equity.

It will give MFC a bit more headroom with FFP. Indeedido can give you chapter and verse on that.
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The loans on the balance sheet were not incurring any interest payments so the conversion to equity will not reduce operational expenditure in this respect. Therefore the conversion will not affect FFP is my understanding.
 
Kowalski said:
The loans on the balance sheet were not incurring any interest payments so the conversion to equity will not reduce operational expenditure in this respect. Therefore the conversion will not affect FFP is my understanding.
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FFP (P&S) allows £39m to be lost over 3 consecutive seasons IF the owner injects £24m of Equity, OR extends loans that are guaranteed to convert to equity.
Given nobody externally knows the precise definition of those Group Undertakings (loans) it is highly possible that at least an element of the Group loans were specified as convertible to equity.

Either way he has been nowhere near FFP limits even without injecting equity OR loans converting to equity. There are massive allowances/adjustments to the reported Pre Tax losses for FFP.
So from a purely FFP perspective he could choose to increase the operating loss having now officially injected the max permissible equity under Profitability and Sustainability Championship rules.
That said, if he spends more on players/wages to lose more, that increased loss is very much a real world loss and would require funding.

Nobody truly knows his motives and not worth speculating, but there are some facts:
1. The move to switch debt to equity will make MFC Balance Sheet look astoundingly better.
2. The move will make Bulkhaul's Balance Sheet look less juicy.
3. It is a massive demonstration of visible commitment.
4. It means GON has actually put in £193m effectively covering the vast majority of the Club's losses since his involvement.
5. It makes the Club become saleable, rather than saddled with enormous debt. It gives him a more attractive entity to eventually sell IF he ever wants to.
6. Because the Club in the Championship will continue to lose money he is still able to offset that loss against Bulkhaul profit for tax benefits.

Rob - you have this access, but it could be used more usefully for all.
 
asredastheycome said:
There is probably a few on here that would love to speak with him Rob but they do not have your access privilege's. And please don't take offence at that. I am not knocking you just pointing out that many who would like the opportunity to have a chat with Steve would not be able to
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indeedido said:
FFP (P&S) allows £39m to be lost over 3 consecutive seasons IF the owner injects £24m of Equity, OR extends loans that are guaranteed to convert to equity.
Given nobody externally knows the precise definition of those Group Undertakings (loans) it is highly possible that at least an element of the Group loans were specified as convertible to equity.

Either way he has been nowhere near FFP limits even without injecting equity OR loans converting to equity. There are massive allowances/adjustments to the reported Pre Tax losses for FFP.
So from a purely FFP perspective he could choose to increase the operating loss having now officially injected the max permissible equity under Profitability and Sustainability Championship rules.
That said, if he spends more on players/wages to lose more, that increased loss is very much a real world loss and would require funding.

Nobody truly knows his motives and not worth speculating, but there are some facts:
1. The move to switch debt to equity will make MFC Balance Sheet look astoundingly better.
2. The move will make Bulkhaul's Balance Sheet look less juicy.
3. It is a massive demonstration of visible commitment.
4. It means GON has actually put in £193m effectively covering the vast majority of the Club's losses since his involvement.
5. It makes the Club become saleable, rather than saddled with enormous debt. It gives him a more attractive entity to eventually sell IF he ever wants to.
6. Because the Club in the Championship will continue to lose money he is still able to offset that loss against Bulkhaul profit for tax benefits.

Rob - you have this access, but it could be used more usefully for all.
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I had to put up with so many insults and so much abuse last time these affairs were discussed that I thought why should I even try and sort this out.
 
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