HMS Queen Elizabeth

D

Defender 4x4

Well-known member
How the uck did we fight at the Falklands ? All of our armed forces are goosed, In the 70's when I was in the RNVR we had a couple of FULLY maned aircraft carriers and loads of frigates, Today we cannot put together a couple of Fleet auxiliaries to supply out "fleet" Our Aircraft carriers are never sea worthy. God forbid we need to fight a serious situation.
 
Defender 4x4 said:
How the uck did we fight at the Falklands ? All of our armed forces are goosed, In the 70's when I was in the RNVR we had a couple of FULLY maned aircraft carriers and loads of frigates, Today we cannot put together a couple of Fleet auxiliaries to supply out "fleet" Our Aircraft carriers are never sea worthy. God forbid we need to fight a serious situation.
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We also had a nation that built its own ships, and now we have to rely on others.
 
That's not exactly true. RFA Tide class were built in Korea. RN ships are built on the Clyde and in Pompey.
Edit: Contract to build at Harland and Wolff in Belfast too.
 
People still refuse to recalibrate. It's not 1924 it's 2024. UK is a medium-size nation state that has been a vassal of the USA for decades but still thinks it has independence and can punch above it's weight. It's military is not significant on the international stage and is only of use as a political tool of the USA.
 
Lemmy_kilmister said:
That's not exactly true. RFA Tide class were built in Korea. RN ships are built on the Clyde and in Pompey
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Rosythe and Plymouth.

Edit: Apologise, it is Portsmouth.

The Aircraft Carrier Alliance is a partnership of BAE Systems, Babcock International, Thales Group and the Ministry of Defence (which acts as both partner and client),[1] together with Rosyth Dockyard, to build the Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carriers for the Royal Navy.[2] Along with Rosyth and BAE Systems' Govan yard, four other shipyards involved in the build process are A&P Tyne, Appledore Shipbuilders, Cammell Laird and HMNB Portsmouth.[2]

I worked at Appledore Shipbuilders whilst seconded from Smiths Dock and they didn't know their @rse from their elbow. There were next to no tradesmen and the staff worked their way up from being labourers to trades. Also worked at Govan and Cammel Lairds.
 
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Our RAF Typhoons need to fly from RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus to engage targets in Yemen. As we cannot support the fight from our aircraft carriers. We cannot man the Aircraft carriers or the fleet auxiliaries. Our senior service is not what it used to be.
 
ThePrisoner said:
People still refuse to recalibrate. It's not 1924 it's 2024. UK is a medium-size nation state that has been a vassal of the USA for decades but still thinks it has independence and can punch above it's weight. It's military is not significant on the international stage and is only of use as a political tool of the USA.
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Totally agree but what we have is not fit for purpose.
 
ThePrisoner said:
People still refuse to recalibrate. It's not 1924 it's 2024. UK is a medium-size nation state that has been a vassal of the USA for decades but still thinks it has independence and can punch above it's weight. It's military is not significant on the international stage and is only of use as a political tool of the USA.
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Forget the military side of it, we are an island and we don't build ships, Maggie Thatcher saw to that.
 
Defender 4x4 said:
How the uck did we fight at the Falklands ? All of our armed forces are goosed, In the 70's when I was in the RNVR we had a couple of FULLY maned aircraft carriers and loads of frigates, Today we cannot put together a couple of Fleet auxiliaries to supply out "fleet" Our Aircraft carriers are never sea worthy. God forbid we need to fight a serious situation.
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Tory austerity is the simple answer.
 
ThePrisoner said:
People still refuse to recalibrate. It's not 1924 it's 2024. UK is a medium-size nation state that has been a vassal of the USA for decades but still thinks it has independence and can punch above it's weight. It's military is not significant on the international stage and is only of use as a political tool of the USA.
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and this.
 
A friend of our family has a son in the army, He is due in Poland next month No winter sleeping bag has two summer sleeping bags. He is charged rent on his accommodation and has to purchase his own kit. WTF
 
How we actually “fought”: Still find [Captain] Robert Lawrence true account of almost fatal injuries he sustained on Tumbledown Mountain, really moving.
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In his book “When The Fighting is Over”, he recounts what he had to overcome, when the rear of his skull was entered by a 7.62 round, entering his head and exiting above his eye. He was in the line of sight of an Argentinian sniper on the freezing cold mountain.. His lads somehow kept him alive. He took the “fight” back to his Regiment, The Scots Guards. His story is really about how the fighting began, after he returned home to England. He really is an amazing, excentric and very much his “own man”. Furthermore, he met the sniper who shot away over 40% of his brain, years later.
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When the Fighting Is over: Tumbledown : A Personal Story - Lawrence, John; Lawrence, Robert: 9780747502883 - AbeBooks

When the Fighting Is over: Tumbledown : A Personal Story by Lawrence, John; Lawrence, Robert - ISBN 10: 0747502889 - ISBN 13: 9780747502883 - Bloomsbury Publishing PLC - 1988 - Softcover
www.abebooks.co.uk
 
It’s a sad state of affairs. I left the RN in 98 after serving for 24 years, and we said then that the RN would end up as a patrol boat Navy with all the cuts and poor recruitment.
 
Maintaining a conventional armed service doesn't make a profit.
However. Maintaining a nuclear deterrent, that we can't use without the U.S.'s say so is acceptable to the tory ideology.
 
Defender 4x4 said:
We could never be that force again, but you would expect that the kit would be fir for purpose and the guys would be kitted out as you and I were.
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But why? The Army went to Iraq with sub standard equipment. Those boys were driving about in death traps. British forces like to laugh at others, but at least the likes of America has proper kit.
 
ThePrisoner said:
People still refuse to recalibrate. It's not 1924 it's 2024. UK is a medium-size nation state that has been a vassal of the USA for decades but still thinks it has independence and can punch above it's weight. It's military is not significant on the international stage and is only of use as a political tool of the USA.
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We’ve been a political pawn for many a nation in the past and also where we currently stand within the political map. Even on the second WW, we really didn’t have an army worthy of putting up a real fight. If the Nazis had been more ruthless then I’m sure they would have occupied the UK for years because we didn’t really have a political will for a qualified military designed on strength in numbers.

Nonetheless despite being a tiny island we still need to defend and protect and make people understand who live on the island that there’s a certain significance in having some sort of defined defence system.

Ok I agree that anyone and everyone could easily jump on John O’Groats and drive the bullet straight down our throats but having a national defence system (combo of conventional and non military systems) is the best option to add what would be an alliance in the event of major global conflict or crisis.

No matter how outdated you may think NATO is, the fact is it’s the only real political weapon that holds the fabric of peace together— need to support it until there’s a better option.
 
QE was meant to sale for OPs of Norway. They have found a fault on the starboard shaft so she is being replaced on the Op with POW… that’s one of the reasons we have two.

I’m not 100% up on the full report but the QE fault seems ever similar to a fault that delayed the POW a couple of years back. So they should know the fix and it should take less time to repair than the POW did.

She was also due a refit later in the year so chances are they will do that now as well.

It’s no big drama and does happen.

As for not sending them to Yemen… who in their right mind would risk a capital ship in that tight water way? The Americans are flying from the gulf as their carrier was already there. (She has overstayed so will be returning soon)

The cost of a full carrier group ( as she can’t operate without a defence screen) is eye watering and not necessary when we have Typhoons sat in Cyprus more than capable of doing the job for not even a tenth of the cost.

The Navy is short of sailors… but it’s not impacting the carriers. A defence discussion only last week confirmed that they are keeping both Albion Class aphibs when everyone expected at least one to be sold off. That wouldn’t have happened unless they knew they could crew them.

As for equipment… the British have never had the best equipment, it’s been a standing joke for centuries
 
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