India lands probe at South pole of the moon
- Thread starter Lemmy_kilmister
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The Ruthsayer
Well-known member
Neo-Liberal trickle down approach warning.
Jedi boro
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The Card Cheat
Well-known member
I think it's a reasonable argument that the best way for India to overcome poverty is to have a long term view. I'm not an expert, but it makes sense that if they develop technology and the skill sets of its citizens, whilst becoming trailblazers in areas like this it could enable them to become a much richer country.
Whereas if they take a short term view and feed the hungry today and for the next few months, eventually that money will run out and those people will be hungry again.
I should add I feel nothing but sympathy and compassion, for people who unlike us in this country haven't won the lottery of life, but I can see the value in a long term strategy.
ThatFragranceGuy
Well-known member
Literally posted an article showing how India has mandated giving away their technology developed as part of it which is leading to lower cost artificial limbs and heat pump technology, which will lead to jobs and therefore money, as well as a functioning space program acting on behalf of other nations, again jobs.
India having a stronger technology industry will lead to them having better jobs available for people instead of call centres and factory work.
It is the exact same reason why we invest in foreign aid internationally, and arts locally, despite the fact that internationally and domestically there are "better things to spend money on"
Why do we fund mima and Tate modern when we have homeless vets and child poverty?
Simple: money spent on arts and sciences isn't like the banking industry b***ks, it literally leads to better and cheaper technology, tourism, more people going into education etc.
Explain to me what India would have done against its poverty with the $75m mission cost that would have had a meaningful impact?
NASA is spending $93billion on its Artemis moon program to 2025. When companies or nations have satellites to launch, who are they going to use?
One tenths of India's population escaped poverty in the last 5 years, for that to continue they need education and skilled jobs to go into, investment in technology sectors provides that. India is now one of the forerunners of space launches, having carried out over 100 launches for private firms and other nations.
75 million dollars would not scratch the surface of poverty amongst Indian population, that would be 32 cents per impoverished citizen. The returns from having a functioning space program will dwarf that in terms of Indian companies producing parts, designing, launching, software etc and their STEM students will continue to make our kids look like thickos, and advancing women (India has more STEM Female grads than UK, Germany, France and USA.
But go ahead, tell me what you would invest that 32 cents on.
ThatFragranceGuy
Well-known member
IMO It's exactly the same argument in councils spending money and then putting council tax up.
Yes you could not spend the money and keep tax the same, then what do you do next year? Stagnant economy, no investment, infrastructure crumbling... now you need to spend twice as much
75 million mission cost is much less than Stockton councils annual budget and people are moaning about India being at the forefront of technology globally, it's an unreal achievement
Jedi boro
Well-known member
That would be true, if india wasn’t already an incredibly rich country.
Look at our PMs in laws.
There’s plenty of rich people in India but non of it seems to reach the street poor.
The Ruthsayer
Well-known member
You make a lot of solid and important points TFG and I’m always happy to listen to alternative viewpoints. Although I doubt the cost of this mission (including R&D) was USD75m, the enormous population size of India does mean that ‘per citizen’ the financial impact would be de minimus. However, anyone who flies into Mumbai and takes the car to Colaba through Asia’s largest slum, cannot help but think that USD1bn would be better invested in healthcare, housing and education.
Glover_elbow
Well-known member
I dont think most Indians above the poorest see poverty through the same social conciseness as we do in the west or at least we pretend to do. Its not a real issue to the majority so there is little political motivation for tackling poverty
Jedi boro
Well-known member
Exactly as you say it’s not a social ill something to rectify, no it’s just a fact of how the natural order is.
Lemmy_kilmister
Well-known member
Been to India a few times now over the years. Chennai, (it was still Madras then) was worse than I ever imagined. Mile after mile of shanty towns. Families living on rubbish tips cooking on a fire next to a chaotic dual carriageway that was beyond belief. Dozens of half starved kids following you everywhere in the hope that you'll give them a few rupees. I argued with a tuktuk driver over 50p...I was so ashamed of myself afterwards. Just before I'd been to Manila and I thought that was bad but it was nothing compared to Chennai. Even the cows walking about the streets were treated better.
Then you look at a country with nuclear weapons and a space programme, and you look at how it forgets it's most desperate people.
There for the grace of God go I.
homesickblues
Well-known member
Gil was well ahead of his time.
The Ruthsayer
Well-known member
Exactly. It’s hard to be dispassionate and take a ‘long term’ view when you see whole families living under a bridge. That’s their entire home. Not even a cardboard shanty.
NoloBoro
Well-known member
So is ours.
NoloBoro
Well-known member
The third sentence was the only part of that which rang true, “I’m not an expert” was bang on the money. To be fair, you were consistent, you then cemented your point by illustrating just how little of an expert you were with what followed.
Anyone who reads anything I write on here will know, I’m not usually this acerbic.
However, this sort of thing really bothers me.
Any pound, dollar, rupee spent on ludicrous things like this is reprehensible when people go hungry.
I’m sure you would be happy to watch your children waste away to nothing, crying for food? You could tell them, ‘hey don’t worry, we’ve landed some ***** object in the moon, you might be starving now but don’t be so short sighted!’ ‘The wealth will trickle down to us, maybe in a decades time we can eat well, you need to think long term’
The Card Cheat
Well-known member
This is an emotional response to a problem which requires a cerebral intelligent solution. I care deeply about the plight of those in poverty, but you cannot feed a billion people unless you have a successful economy. It's a cold hard fact. The Fragrance Guy has shown very clearly the economic benefits which will come from India having a space program but people would rather ignore that and rely on emotional unhelpful cliches.
So your post doesn't come across as "acerbic", just a bit stupid.
NoloBoro
Well-known member
I think you’re dead wrong. I think people who are hungry now won’t care about later. I don’t envy your objective view on this matter. I hear the same argument to legitimise what’s going on in this country, of course to a lesser extent. You are entitled to your opinion that I’m stupid, that’s ok. But, your are naive if you honestly think the majority will benefit from things such as a space program, South Pole exploration or nuclear armament.