Just how highly Juninho is regarded.

FatCat said:
I think if we are honest he was a great player but we do overplay how good he was. For me he sits just outside the top echelons of great players to have graced the premiership. You wouldn’t find him in any top ten lists of great premier league players, not even top 20.

he’s a legend to us and always will be rightly so but take off the MFC glasses and there are numerous players ahead of him.

edit: a quick look on the internet and we see he just makes the top 100.

www.sportbible.com

The Greatest Players In Premier League History Ranked From 1-100

There has been so much talent in the Premier League since its inception in 1992.
www.sportbible.com www.sportbible.com
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I wouldn't pay much attention to that list. DeBruyne is rated at number 59 and it places Nani and Jay Jay Okocha ahead of Juninho :ROFLMAO:
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
And by no means just Boro fans.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1396345397665157122
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False comparisons - the other 3 are all hot head North African players with questionable attitude. Unplayable at times but all 3 dragged clubs through the mud.

Juninho was one of the first foreign players to come and represent the club and area on and off the pitch, and turn into a legend with supporters not just for his skills but for his love of the club.

Better comparison would be Zola.
 
Colin Warnek said:
False comparisons - the other 3 are all hot head North African players with questionable attitude. Unplayable at times but all 3 dragged clubs through the mud.

Juninho was one of the first foreign players to come and represent the club and area on and off the pitch, and turn into a legend with supporters not just for his skills but for his love of the club.

Better comparison would be Zola.
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I'm going to be pedantic, but Payet isn't North African.

He's from Reunion, a French island in the Indian ocean.
 
I don't think we over-rated him, he was the best player we've ever had. Loads voted him for player of the year, despite us being relegated, and people outside the top half are hardly ever considered.

The main reason why there could be some doubt is because his best year was with us, largely 96-97 and there was no world cup, and obviously he can't play in the Euro's. He was too young for the 1994 world cup, and injured for the 98 world cup. His window was small, because of his injury, and some people when assessing Juninho also include his latter spells, which whilst correct does not tell the full story.

Also, in 96-97 Brazil were quite good (understatement), not easy standing out in a team which has Ronaldo (who had an unreal year at Barcelona), Rivaldo, Denilson, Leonardo, Bebeto, Edmundo, Djalminha, Ze Roberto all kicking about at the same time etc, etc. They were probably one of the great all time national teams, the only reason they never won the world cup was because they played France, in France and the best player in the world had a meltdown.
 
Andy_W said:
I don't think we over-rated him, he was the best player we've ever had. Loads voted him for player of the year, despite us being relegated, and people outside the top half are hardly ever considered.
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Agreed. Had he played for Chelsea and Zola for Boro, he would have won it.

I think his personality is held in quite high esteem too; I've had fans of other clubs tell me how they remember him sitting on the pitch a Leeds, squaring up to Albert, and lifting the cup.

The disadvantage he may have against those other 3 in a vote is that no one under the age of 30 will have seen him in his prime, and few under the age of 25 will remember him playing at all. The others were mainly in the last 10 years.
 
Frozen Horse said:
Agreed. Had he played for Chelsea and Zola for Boro, he would have won it.

I think his personality is held in quite high esteem too; I've had fans of other clubs tell me how they remember him sitting on the pitch a Leeds, squaring up to Albert, and lifting the cup.

The disadvantage he may have against those other 3 in a vote is that no one under the age of 30 will have seen him in his prime, and few under the age of 25 will remember him playing at all. The others were mainly in the last 10 years.
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Yeah, the Zola thing was a bit of a pi$$take to Juninho like, he missed the first 4 months of the season.

Yeah, good shout on his personality, it's one thing which is rarely considered. He absolutely loved us, just as much as we loved him.
One of the very few occasions where a player has had to leave, and nobody really begrudged him of leaving. We loved him that much that we had to let him go, so he could be shared with the world at the World Cup. So sad that he never got to play in that world cup. He looked broken at that Leeds game, rare to see some genuine care like that, reminded me of Gazza at Italia 90.

Yeah, even most around then for other clubs won't have seen lot of him either, as the coverage wasn't as good then as it is now. Loads of fans may have only seen him once or twice, we saw it every week, even if he was largely playing on his own. Emerson and Ravanalle get spoken about in the same breath, but they couldn't lace the boots of TLF, albeit they were well ahead of most of the rest.
 
Frozen Horse said:
The more I think about it, the more difference this makes.

I don't the PAyet, Taarabt and Ben Arfa were better players than Kinkladze, Curcic and Chippo, who played in a similar era to TLF.

In a vote against those 3, he'd be miles ahead.
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I think Payet would also be a bit disappointed to be put in the same vote as Taarabt and BA, both of which done next to nowt.

Interesting that each of those players (from the recent times) are a bit of a loose cannon, the total opposite of Juninho.
 
I think, in part at least, that from the outside Juninho was admired as the plucky loser, the tiny player who never gave up and had tremendous heart to match his undoubted ability, the nearly man, the professional in a team of amateurs and we were seen as an Icarus team, a squad with the parts to make the journey but didn’t have the Daedalian discipline to make it happen. I think we were seen as the first step on a career that would lead to major clubs, best in world accolades, a plethora of trophies and awards.

Because, that didn’t happen I think the remembrance of his abilities at his peak with us are slightly dimmed, the fact we were relegated, and lost two cup finals adds to that perception of underachievement and when he returned he didn’t have the same influence or impact on the team as before meant that Juninho who was ‘found out’ and neutralised is the one that many fans of other clubs remember.
 
Andy_W said:
I think Payet would also be a bit disappointed to be put in the same vote as Taarabt and BA, both of which done next to nowt.
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HAs Payet really done anything? Undoubtedly talented and he has produced some wonderful moments, but I don't think he's won anything major throughout his career and, playing for a moderate Marseilles side at the age of 34, is unlikely to do so.

His 2 Coupe de la Réunion winners medals do not compare to TLF's haul
 
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American_Mary said:
I think, in part at least, that from the outside Juninho was admired as the plucky loser, the tiny player who never gave up and had tremendous heart to match his undoubted ability, the nearly man, the professional in a team of amateurs and we were seen as an Icarus team, a squad with the parts to make the journey but didn’t have the Daedalian discipline to make it happen. I think we were seen as the first step on a career that would lead to major clubs, best in world accolades, a plethora of trophies and awards.

Because, that didn’t happen I think the remembrance of his abilities at his peak with us are slightly dimmed, the fact we were relegated, and lost two cup finals adds to that perception of underachievement and when he returned he didn’t have the same influence or impact on the team as before meant that Juninho who was ‘found out’ and neutralised is the one that many fans of other clubs remember.
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I was thinking the same thing as this last night, the fact that he came back here twice and didn't play at the same level maybe dilutes how good he was the first time for some people.

I've heard comments in the past questioning how good he was when he couldn't even get a regular game for Celtic.

I think in our relegation season he played at a level which was up there with the best Premier league players we've seen. Obviously he's going to get ranked below players like Giggs and Henry because they did it over a number of seasons, but for that one season he played at a level as good as the best we've seen.

One last thing, I think its trendy now for some Boro fans to say he was overrated, its almost like a badge of honour to say you think Merson was better and Juninho is overrated. Its similar to people saying Messi is overrated and Xavi was the better player.
 
Uwefuchs said:
I was thinking the same thing as this last night, the fact that he came back here twice and didn't play at the same level maybe dilutes how good he was the first time for some people.

I've heard comments in the past questioning how good he was when he couldn't even get a regular game for Celtic.

I think in our relegation season he played at a level which was up there with the best Premier league players we've seen. Obviously he's going to get ranked below players like Giggs and Henry because they did it over a number of seasons, but for that one season he played at a level as good as the best we've seen.

One last thing, I think its trendy now for some Boro fans to say he was overrated, its almost like a badge of honour to say you think Merson was better and Juninho is overrated. Its similar to people saying Messi is overrated and Xavi was the better player.
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I'd say fans overrate players of their own clubs in general, as objectivity is compromised, but with Juninho I don't think its necessarily that people think he 'wasn't that good' because of his subsequent returns. Its just that he was only outstanding for one year, and as outstanding as he was, one season isn't really long enough to put you amongst the PL greats.

He says himself he should have stayed in the PL and had he gone to United as Cantona's replacement (rumoured before they signed Sheringham) I've no doubt we could be sitting here talking about one of the absolute best PL players of the era. But he didn't, and therefore, we're not. I have huge affection for him and for that one season, he was head and shoulders above anything we've ever had before or since in a Boro shirt. He was very decent in his final spell too when we won the cup. But he was never quite at the level of Ronaldo, Zidane, Figo and the other global elite of the day, but he was the closest thing we've ever had to it, hence why he was joint 25th in the ballon d'Or that year.
 
I understand where atypical is coming from. For about 6 months in 96/97 he was playing at such a level that he was, for me, the best in the PL and right up there in terms of the best in the world. He's not in the Zidane/Ronaldo etc class though because it wasn't sustained. However, what I would say is that it is really difficult to overrate a player with these on his CV:

Brazilian Young Player of the Year
Premier League player of the year
49 caps for Brazil (at a time when they had outstanding talent)
World Cup winner

That is a really special player by any standards.
 
I love how people are comparing him to Ronaldo ( the real one) Ronaldinho and rivaldo as though that’s a bad thing yes he wasn’t as good as etc.

I think the fact you have to raise the bar as high as that says it all.

btw none of those mega players came near to coming to England either so that In itself shows how far ahead in this country he and we were.

the only resin he’s not on those lists is cos he came to an unfashionable ( hate that phrase) club in the north and the southern press couldn’t stand it.

remember the Kate battersby article because I do.
 
He was unquestionably a special player.

I bet he really wishes he had gone to United in 97 instead of Atleti. Who knows, they might have won the league in 1998.
 
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