Ken Loach expelled from the Labour Party

[JackG]

Today's Guardian

Jeremy Corbyn could be banned from Labour party conference​

Update
"
Jeremy Corbyn will be granted a pass to Labour’s conference in Brighton later this month and will be free to address fringe meetings despite currently sitting as an independent MP, a party spokesperson has said.

The former leader, who had the whip suspended by Keir Starmer last year, has applied for a conference pass and accepted invitations to speak at several events, the Guardian understands.

Amid a growing row about whether Corbyn should be allowed to attend, a spokesperson said: “He’s definitely not barred: of course he will be getting a conference pass.”
"

 

[Redben]

That is an outrageous claim to make. You should produce some evidence that Corbyn et al were bigging up anti-Semitic views or remove that post. If you actually look at the first graph it shows that anti-Semitism within Labour's ranks actually decreased between 2015 and 2017.

If anti-Semitism in among Corbyn's people was really running high then the evidence would not have to be invented

You could start with the chakribarti report stating there was a toxic atmosphere for Jewish people within the party during Corbyns reign.....a report commissioned by Corbyn himself.

There's the mural story involving corbyn.

Hes on record as calling Israel a racist endeavour.

The refusal to sign up to the IHRA

He said British zionists have no sense of irony. Clearly meaning Jews as per chakribarti re interchanging Jews with zionists in a negative connotation.

His wreath laying alongside terrorists.

Burgeons comments are well known as are mcdonnells.

Livingstone.
Naz Shah
Chris Williamson.
Jackie Walker

Poisonous atmospheres at CLP meetings.

Horrific online abuse of Jewish mps And members resulting in police action in some circumstances.

The list goes on. Either by or not condoned by the leadership.

It was systemic from the top. It gave oxygen to anti semites who came crawling out if the woodwork.

Change all this to black people or muslim people and the condemnation would have been deafening and ten fold.

He and they have gone now. Its over really bar the shouting. Defending the indefensible is shameful.

 

[Same_as_before]

No body is disputing that it is a terrible situation.

You do know that the Jewish people are not the only ones to occupy that part of the world. It has been occupied and fought over for thousands of years and the Jewish tribe were only one of many that ruled there and then were pushed out and replaced by the next group. However until fairly recently the Palestinians of today had managed to keep hold of the area for many centuries even before and after the crusades, and during that time were always welcoming and protective of the Jewish population.

The Romans drove the Jews out of Jerusalem but the Caliph Umar invited Jews to return to Jerusalem after it came into Muslim hands.
The Crusaders drove Muslims and Jews out of Jerusalem. Sultan Saladin invited Jews to return when the Muslims regained control.
When Jews were persecuted in Europe, In Palestine they were welcomed by the local Muslims.
However, when the UK government promised the Zionists their homeland we colonised the area and drove the Muslims out to be replaced with Jewish settlers. And they certainly hit the ground running. The expansion began in 1948 and it is still at it to this day and life in the Gaza strip today is as bad or worse than in the Jewish ghettos of 1930's Europe. Palestinians are still being removed from their homes and their livelihoods, illegal settlements are cropping up all over the place making a two state solution impossible, as Jewish American political commentator Peter Beinart explains:

"The Israeli government wants to define anti-Zionism as bigotry because doing so helps Israel kill the two-state solution with impunity.
For years, Barack Obama and John Kerry warned that if Israel continued the settlement growth in the West Bank that made a Palestinian state impossible, Palestinians would stop demanding a Palestinian state alongside Israel and instead demand one state between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, neither Jewish nor Palestinian, that replaces Israel.

Defining anti-Zionism as anti-Semitism reduces that threat. It means that if Palestinians and their supporters respond to the demise of the two-state solution by demanding one equal state, some of the world’s most powerful governments will declare them bigots. Which leaves Israel free to entrench its own version of one state, which denies millions of Palestinians basic rights. Silencing Palestinians isn’t a particularly effective way to fight rising anti-Semitism, much of which comes from people who like neither Palestinians nor Jews. But, just as important, it undermines the moral basis of that fight.

Anti-Semitism isn’t wrong because it is wrong to denigrate and dehumanise Jews. Anti-Semitism is wrong because it is wrong to denigrate and dehumanise anyone. Which means, ultimately, that any effort to fight anti-Semitism that contributes to the denigration and dehumanisation of Palestinians is no fight against anti-Semitism at all."

So you see SAB, if you wish to see the establishment of a two state solution Israel are going to have to start playing the game.

You might faint, but I agree with every word of that.

My point is, expecting a country with the recent history of its inhabitants to act in what we would call a normal atmosphere, badly put I hope you know what I mean, is a tough ask.

There are people still alive who don't know their parents or if they had brothers and sisters. It does not help that states around do not want Israel to exist.

I am very pro Israel, I cannot imagine what they have been through at the hands of a Western country. I am ashamed as a country we chose to do nothing.

Germany is only 2 to 3 hours away, we knew what was happening, we had no will because they were Jews, if they had been Christian we would have acted.

Can I make clear that in all the time I was in the party I never noticed any anti seminism, and I do not think Corbyn has a racist or sectarian bone in his body. Him liking that disgusting Mural was lazy.

 

[r00fie1]

You could start with the chakribarti report stating there was a toxic atmosphere for Jewish people within the party during Corbyns reign.....a report commissioned by Corbyn himself.

There's the mural story involving corbyn.

Hes on record as calling Israel a racist endeavour.

The refusal to sign up to the IHRA

He said British zionists have no sense of irony. Clearly meaning Jews as per chakribarti re interchanging Jews with zionists in a negative connotation.

His wreath laying alongside terrorists.

Burgeons comments are well known as are mcdonnells.

Livingstone.
Naz Shah
Chris Williamson.
Jackie Walker

Poisonous atmospheres at CLP meetings.

Horrific online abuse of Jewish mps And members resulting in police action in some circumstances.

The list goes on. Either by or not condoned by the leadership.

It was systemic from the top. It gave oxygen to anti semites who came crawling out if the woodwork.

Change all this to black people or muslim people and the condemnation would have been deafening and ten fold.

He and they have gone now. Its over really bar the shouting. Defending the indefensible is shameful.

Utter bull.
A complete fabrication.

​

The smearing of Ken Loach and Jeremy Corbyn is the face of our new toxic politics

This article by Jonathan Cook is over a year old. But it couldn’t be more topical, following Ken Loach’s “auto-exclusion”…

www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk

The smearing of Ken Loach and Jeremy Corbyn is the face of our new toxic politics​

By the way:

" The hard left obsession with Israel is born out of classic leftwing anti semitism dating back to Marx" [your quote]

Get the facts:
Marx was of Jewish ancestry.

 

[BlindBoyGrunt]

You could start with the chakribarti report stating there was a toxic atmosphere for Jewish people within the party during Corbyns reign.....a report commissioned by Corbyn himself.

The inquiry presented its findings on 30 June 2016 -only nine months into Corbyn's leadership - stating that although antisemitism and other types of racism were not endemic within Labour, there was an "occasionally toxic atmosphere". Of course Corbyn commissioned the report only seven months into his leadership so no time wasting there and as I demonstrated earlier, after Corbyn took over the leadership Anti-Semitism in the party declined. You can't blame him for something that happened on someone else's watch.

Hes on record as calling Israel a racist endeavour.

I'll need evidence of that one.

The refusal to sign up to the IHRA

Labour adopted the IHRA. Corbyn accepted the report but objected to some of the examples in the report because they were too ambiguous and left room for conflation but he was happy with the body of the report .The EHRC also thought that the IHRA was flawed. This April, a report seen by Al Jazeera showed that IHRA had misrepresented their own report.

He said British zionists have no sense of irony. Clearly meaning Jews as per chakribarti re interchanging Jews with zionists in a negative connotation.

Lies to smear Corbyn. He was referring to two Zionists who were disrupting a meeting and had missed the irony of the previous speaker whose first language wasn't English. He clearly referred to Zionists so as you kindly point out - interchanging Jews with zionists in a negative connotation - which is exactly what his accusers were doing and also what you are doing now. You are aware that not all Zionists are Jews, aren't you?

His wreath laying alongside terrorists.

LIe. In fact, the wreath was laid at the Palestinian cemetery in Tunisia, which has a memorial to the victims of the universally condemned 1985 Israeli bombing of the PLO headquarters, many of whom were civilians.The Munich terrorists are buried in another country, Libya. Corbyn was in the wrong country.

Livingstone - Kicked out of party. He was referring to the Haavara agreement, a mechanism to help German Jews relocate to Palestine. Livingston wasn't on top of the subject that's true, but what's that got to do with Corbyn?

Naz Shah - reproduced a joke map from the website of Jewish Scholar Norman Finkelstein. He defended her use of the image but she apologised profusely anyway.

Chris Williamson. Wrongly kicked out of the party on trumped up charges

Jackie Walker See Chris Williamson.

Defending the indefensible is shameful.

So is lying to condemn people.

 

[Redben]

Utter bull.
A complete fabrication.

​

The smearing of Ken Loach and Jeremy Corbyn is the face of our new toxic politics

This article by Jonathan Cook is over a year old. But it couldn’t be more topical, following Ken Loach’s “auto-exclusion”…

www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk

The smearing of Ken Loach and Jeremy Corbyn is the face of our new toxic politics​

View attachment 23845


By the way:

" The hard left obsession with Israel is born out of classic leftwing anti semitism dating back to Marx" [your quote]

Get the facts:
Marx was of Jewish ancestry.
View attachment 23844
View attachment 23846View attachment 23847
View attachment 23848

Marx did have jewish ancestors. Why would that prevent him from publishing anti semitic tropes?

 

[Redben]

The inquiry presented its findings on 30 June 2016 -only nine months into Corbyn's leadership - stating that although antisemitism and other types of racism were not endemic within Labour, there was an "occasionally toxic atmosphere". Of course Corbyn commissioned the report only seven months into his leadership so no time wasting there and as I demonstrated earlier, after Corbyn took over the leadership Anti-Semitism in the party declined. You can't blame him for something that happened on someone else's watch.

I'll need evidence of that one.

Labour adopted the IHRA. Corbyn accepted the report but objected to some of the examples in the report because they were too ambiguous and left room for conflation but he was happy with the body of the report .The EHRC also thought that the IHRA was flawed. This April, a report seen by Al Jazeera showed that IHRA had misrepresented their own report.

Lies to smear Corbyn. He was referring to two Zionists who were disrupting a meeting and had missed the irony of the previous speaker whose first language wasn't English. He clearly referred to Zionists so as you kindly point out - interchanging Jews with zionists in a negative connotation - which is exactly what his accusers were doing and also what you are doing now. You are aware that not all Zionists are Jews, aren't you?

LIe. In fact, the wreath was laid at the Palestinian cemetery in Tunisia, which has a memorial to the victims of the universally condemned 1985 Israeli bombing of the PLO headquarters, many of whom were civilians.The Munich terrorists are buried in another country, Libya. Corbyn was in the wrong country.

Livingstone - Kicked out of party. He was referring to the Haavara agreement, a mechanism to help German Jews relocate to Palestine. Livingston wasn't on top of the subject that's true, but what's that got to do with Corbyn?

Naz Shah - reproduced a joke map from the website of Jewish Scholar Norman Finkelstein. He defended her use of the image but she apologised profusely anyway.

Chris Williamson. Wrongly kicked out of the party on trumped up charges

Jackie Walker See Chris Williamson.


So is lying to condemn people.

Well clearly we don't agree. The facts are the facts. It's all documented. Opinion is opinion except when it's deliberately misinterpreted.

Ultimately its done. These people will disappear into irrelevance. The party will survive and come again. History tells us this. The left of the left will rebound eventually after everyone forgets but meanwhile an electable party based on policies the electorate care about from a party it trusts to govern has every chance after what will be 15 years of tories, post covid and post brexit...

 

[SuperStu]

The party will survive and come again. History tells us this.

It absolutely doesn't. Not sure where you've gotten that idea. Whens the next Whig government coming? The next Liberal government? If you're going on history it's much more likely that the long demise of the Labour party that's happened for the last 20 years will carry on and another party will rise up to take it's place.

meanwhile an electable party based on policies the electorate care about from a party it trusts to govern has every chance after what will be 15 years of tories, post covid and post brexit...

Policies the electorate care about?! Recovery bonds and killing alpacas?

 

[r00fie1]

Well clearly we don't agree. The facts are the facts. It's all documented. Opinion is opinion except when it's deliberately misinterpreted.

Ultimately its done. These people will disappear into irrelevance. The party will survive and come again. History tells us this. The left of the left will rebound eventually after everyone forgets but meanwhile an electable party based on policies the electorate care about from a party it trusts to govern has every chance after what will be 15 years of tories, post covid and post brexit...

The fight against racism will not end until every Palestinian is free

 

[Redben]

It absolutely doesn't. Not sure where you've gotten that idea. Whens the next Whig government coming? The next Liberal government? If you're going on history it's much more likely that the long demise of the Labour party that's happened for the last 20 years will carry on and another party will rise up to take it's place.



Policies the electorate care about?! Recovery bonds and killing alpacas?

The Labour Party is cyclical. Its bends to the left it bends to the centre. The similarities with the 80s and the Party's trajectory are obvious.

There's a long way to go. I'm not sure Starmer is the man but what he will do will better the Party whether you like it or not. Hopefully things come together before the next GE. The tories will give us every chance if we are willing to take it.

 

[Same_as_before]

The inquiry presented its findings on 30 June 2016 -only nine months into Corbyn's leadership - stating that although antisemitism and other types of racism were not endemic within Labour, there was an "occasionally toxic atmosphere". Of course Corbyn commissioned the report only seven months into his leadership so no time wasting there and as I demonstrated earlier, after Corbyn took over the leadership Anti-Semitism in the party declined. You can't blame him for something that happened on someone else's watch.

I'll need evidence of that one.

Labour adopted the IHRA. Corbyn accepted the report but objected to some of the examples in the report because they were too ambiguous and left room for conflation but he was happy with the body of the report .The EHRC also thought that the IHRA was flawed. This April, a report seen by Al Jazeera showed that IHRA had misrepresented their own report.

Lies to smear Corbyn. He was referring to two Zionists who were disrupting a meeting and had missed the irony of the previous speaker whose first language wasn't English. He clearly referred to Zionists so as you kindly point out - interchanging Jews with zionists in a negative connotation - which is exactly what his accusers were doing and also what you are doing now. You are aware that not all Zionists are Jews, aren't you?

LIe. In fact, the wreath was laid at the Palestinian cemetery in Tunisia, which has a memorial to the victims of the universally condemned 1985 Israeli bombing of the PLO headquarters, many of whom were civilians.The Munich terrorists are buried in another country, Libya. Corbyn was in the wrong country.

Livingstone - Kicked out of party. He was referring to the Haavara agreement, a mechanism to help German Jews relocate to Palestine. Livingston wasn't on top of the subject that's true, but what's that got to do with Corbyn?

Naz Shah - reproduced a joke map from the website of Jewish Scholar Norman Finkelstein. He defended her use of the image but she apologised profusely anyway.

Chris Williamson. Wrongly kicked out of the party on trumped up charges

Jackie Walker See Chris Williamson.


So is lying to condemn people.

We keep going around the same roundabout. It's time to attack Johnson.

 

[Ex pfc wintergreen]

The fight against racism will not end until every Palestinian is free
View attachment 23862

being used as pawns in the region's geopolitics doesn't help.

 

[r00fie1]

We need to remember that racism, apartheid and colonialism are at the centre of this debate.

Its beyond words and a sterile debate about Kier Starmer - whom history will quickly forget.

Its about the Palestinian people having the right to live in their homeland.

Its about stopping arms sales to the Israeli regime who "field test" them on Palestinian people.

Its about resisting demolitions of Palestinians homes by the occupying army.

Its about building a world-wide movement against racism and apartheid: about supporting the Palestinians right to be free from arbitrary detention, freedom from the brutal murderous occupiers and the freedom to determine their future in their own land.

Apartheid South Africa was propped up by "western democracy" as it murdered black South Africans. So called "mainstream" media and the British Prime Minister - Thatcher - supported the murderous regime. She called Mandella a "terrorist". History has shown who was on the side of terror.

Ordinary people marching in London and around the globe support humanity, anti - racism and the right for Palestinians to be free. They arent anti-semites. Thats a gagging order on anyone who questions a racist regime.

Those who talk of Israel "defending itself" have no answer to the question "how do the Palestinians defend themselves"? Why should they face the bullets, the sniper, the tanks, the phosphorous bombs, the intimidation, the imprisonment, the torture, the expatriation and stealing of their land? They defend the oppressor - not the oppressed.

Included in the "Palestinians" are the Christian and other non-Muslim religious faiths - who suffer the same oppression and torture as the Arabs.

As the western made bullets kill innocent children and as Elbeit build bombs and drones in Oldham and Leicester - ordinary people wont stand by.

As the racists try to marginalise anti-racists as a "minority" "hard left" "anti-free speech" [to be a racist] "anti-semitic", "against Israels right to defend itself" [but not the Palestinians] etc, ordinary people and football fans do care about what goes on beyond the football pitch. Let the supporters of apartheid and racism wave their flags and defend the indefensible.

In the mainstream world, we will continue to support the fight against racism everywhere - whether its in Turkey, Hungary, on the streets of Atlanta or in the Riverside Stadium!

 

[Colin Warnek]

The party will survive and come again. History tells us this.

There's nothing to tell us this at the moment. There's no broad representation and the SNP has been a devastating intervening factor.

 

[JackG]

There's nothing to tell us this at the moment. There's no broad representation and the SNP has been a devastating intervening factor.

Agreed. I'm sure the Liberals were fairly confident before WW1. Has anybody voted Whig recently?

 

[Redben]

SNP and boundary changes are game changers for sure. It makes it harder. But above all who the front bench are and what the united message says is enough if done right.

It'd help if those obsessed with Israel did it elsewhere. It's a massive turn off to the electorate. Denying anti semitism/racism is a massive turn off to the vast majority and stops the party moving forward.

If attacking a centre left party is preferable to going after the tories then good riddance. Starmer is right to marginalise you.

 

[Redben]

We need to remember that racism, apartheid and colonialism are at the centre of this debate.

Its beyond words and a sterile debate about Kier Starmer - whom history will quickly forget.
View attachment 23890
Its about the Palestinian people having the right to live in their homeland.

Its about stopping arms sales to the Israeli regime who "field test" them on Palestinian people.
View attachment 23891
Its about resisting demolitions of Palestinians homes by the occupying army.

Its about building a world-wide movement against racism and apartheid: about supporting the Palestinians right to be free from arbitrary detention, freedom from the brutal murderous occupiers and the freedom to determine their future in their own land.
View attachment 23884
Apartheid South Africa was propped up by "western democracy" as it murdered black South Africans. So called "mainstream" media and the British Prime Minister - Thatcher - supported the murderous regime. She called Mandella a "terrorist". History has shown who was on the side of terror.

Ordinary people marching in London and around the globe support humanity, anti - racism and the right for Palestinians to be free. They arent anti-semites. Thats a gagging order on anyone who questions a racist regime.
View attachment 23892
Those who talk of Israel "defending itself" have no answer to the question "how do the Palestinians defend themselves"? Why should they face the bullets, the sniper, the tanks, the phosphorous bombs, the intimidation, the imprisonment, the torture, the expatriation and stealing of their land? They defend the oppressor - not the oppressed.
View attachment 23886
Included in the "Palestinians" are the Christian and other non-Muslim religious faiths - who suffer the same oppression and torture as the Arabs.

As the western made bullets kill innocent children and as Elbeit build bombs and drones in Oldham and Leicester - ordinary people wont stand by.
View attachment 23888
As the racists try to marginalise anti-racists as a "minority" "hard left" "anti-free speech" [to be a racist] "anti-semitic", "against Israels right to defend itself" [but not the Palestinians] etc, ordinary people and football fans do care about what goes on beyond the football pitch. Let the supporters of apartheid and racism wave their flags and defend the indefensible.
View attachment 23889
In the mainstream world, we will continue to support the fight against racism everywhere - whether its in Turkey, Hungary, on the streets of Atlanta or in the Riverside Stadium!
View attachment 23893

Obsessed

 

[Colin Warnek]

It'd help if those obsessed with Israel did it elsewhere. It's a massive turn off to the electorate. Denying anti semitism/racism is a massive turn off to the vast majority and stops the party moving forward.

The whole thing shouldn't even be relevant to the cause or party. Or if it is, about as relevant as someone's opinion on the West Papua question.

 

[Same_as_before]

We need to remember that racism, apartheid and colonialism are at the centre of this debate.

Its beyond words and a sterile debate about Kier Starmer - whom history will quickly forget.
View attachment 23890
Its about the Palestinian people having the right to live in their homeland.

Its about stopping arms sales to the Israeli regime who "field test" them on Palestinian people.
View attachment 23891
Its about resisting demolitions of Palestinians homes by the occupying army.

Its about building a world-wide movement against racism and apartheid: about supporting the Palestinians right to be free from arbitrary detention, freedom from the brutal murderous occupiers and the freedom to determine their future in their own land.
View attachment 23884
Apartheid South Africa was propped up by "western democracy" as it murdered black South Africans. So called "mainstream" media and the British Prime Minister - Thatcher - supported the murderous regime. She called Mandella a "terrorist". History has shown who was on the side of terror.

Ordinary people marching in London and around the globe support humanity, anti - racism and the right for Palestinians to be free. They arent anti-semites. Thats a gagging order on anyone who questions a racist regime.
View attachment 23892
Those who talk of Israel "defending itself" have no answer to the question "how do the Palestinians defend themselves"? Why should they face the bullets, the sniper, the tanks, the phosphorous bombs, the intimidation, the imprisonment, the torture, the expatriation and stealing of their land? They defend the oppressor - not the oppressed.
View attachment 23886
Included in the "Palestinians" are the Christian and other non-Muslim religious faiths - who suffer the same oppression and torture as the Arabs.

As the western made bullets kill innocent children and as Elbeit build bombs and drones in Oldham and Leicester - ordinary people wont stand by.
View attachment 23888
As the racists try to marginalise anti-racists as a "minority" "hard left" "anti-free speech" [to be a racist] "anti-semitic", "against Israels right to defend itself" [but not the Palestinians] etc, ordinary people and football fans do care about what goes on beyond the football pitch. Let the supporters of apartheid and racism wave their flags and defend the indefensible.
View attachment 23889
In the mainstream world, we will continue to support the fight against racism everywhere - whether its in Turkey, Hungary, on the streets of Atlanta or in the Riverside Stadium!
View attachment 23893

So basically if we are pro Israel we are racists.

No different to saying all those who support Hamas and Palestine is anti semetic.

 

[Redben]

The whole thing shouldn't even be relevant to the cause or party. Or if it is, about as relevant as someone's opinion on the West Papua question.

British anti zionists don't get irony.....