Ken Loach expelled from the Labour Party

[Same_as_before]

View attachment 23911View attachment 23912View attachment 23913

What about semitism?

 

[r00fie1]

The whole thing shouldn't even be relevant to the cause or party. Or if it is, about as relevant as someone's opinion on the West Papua question.

The Labour Party has always been an Internationalist Party.

Basic freedoms and human rights might not matter to some, but they matter to most humanitarian people.

Labour Party Official Website:

A New Internationalism

Labour Party Manifesto 2019

labour.org.uk

Human Rights​

Human rights and international humanitarian law are fundamental pillars of a secure global system. These principles are under threat. Some of the world’s most powerful states choose to sell arms to human-rights abusing states. Conservative ministers, including Boris Johnson, have signed off well over £2 billion of arms sales to repressive regimes since June 2017.

Around the world, human rights defenders and civil society activists remain vulnerable to attacks, often carried out with impunity.

We will:

• Immediately suspend the sale of arms to Saudi Arabia for use in Yemen and to Israel for arms used in violation of the human rights of Palestinian civilians, and conduct a root-and-branch reform of our arms exports regime so ministers can never again turn a blind eye to British-made weapons being used to target innocent civilians.

• Reform the international rules-based order to secure justice and accountability for breaches of human rights and international law, such as the bombing of hospitals in Syria, the illegal blockade of the Gaza Strip, the use of rape as a weapon of war against the Rohingya community in Myanmar and the indiscriminate bombardment of civilians in Yemen.

• We will work through the UN and the Commonwealth to insist on the protection of human rights for Sri Lanka’s minority Tamil and Muslim populations.

• Appoint human-rights advisers to work across the Foreign Office and government to prioritise a co-ordinated approach to human rights.

• Advocate for human rights at every bilateral diplomatic meeting.

 

[Colin Warnek]

The Labour Party has always been an Internationalist Party.
View attachment 23914
Basic freedoms and human rights might not matter to some, but they matter to most humanitarian people.

Labour Party Official Website:

A New Internationalism

Labour Party Manifesto 2019

labour.org.uk

Human Rights​

Human rights and international humanitarian law are fundamental pillars of a secure global system. These principles are under threat. Some of the world’s most powerful states choose to sell arms to human-rights abusing states. Conservative ministers, including Boris Johnson, have signed off well over £2 billion of arms sales to repressive regimes since June 2017.

Around the world, human rights defenders and civil society activists remain vulnerable to attacks, often carried out with impunity.

We will:

• Immediately suspend the sale of arms to Saudi Arabia for use in Yemen and to Israel for arms used in violation of the human rights of Palestinian civilians, and conduct a root-and-branch reform of our arms exports regime so ministers can never again turn a blind eye to British-made weapons being used to target innocent civilians.

• Reform the international rules-based order to secure justice and accountability for breaches of human rights and international law, such as the bombing of hospitals in Syria, the illegal blockade of the Gaza Strip, the use of rape as a weapon of war against the Rohingya community in Myanmar and the indiscriminate bombardment of civilians in Yemen.

• We will work through the UN and the Commonwealth to insist on the protection of human rights for Sri Lanka’s minority Tamil and Muslim populations.

• Appoint human-rights advisers to work across the Foreign Office and government to prioritise a co-ordinated approach to human rights.

• Advocate for human rights at every bilateral diplomatic meeting.

I am as glad to see it as any but it shouldn't be at the forefront of the agenda between members, when the party is in opposition.

Surely we should save these squabbles for when (if ever) the party returns to power and can have actual relevance on the international scene.

 

[Same_as_before]

The Labour Party has always been an Internationalist Party.
View attachment 23914
Basic freedoms and human rights might not matter to some, but they matter to most humanitarian people.

Labour Party Official Website:

A New Internationalism

Labour Party Manifesto 2019

labour.org.uk

Human Rights​

Human rights and international humanitarian law are fundamental pillars of a secure global system. These principles are under threat. Some of the world’s most powerful states choose to sell arms to human-rights abusing states. Conservative ministers, including Boris Johnson, have signed off well over £2 billion of arms sales to repressive regimes since June 2017.

Around the world, human rights defenders and civil society activists remain vulnerable to attacks, often carried out with impunity.

We will:

• Immediately suspend the sale of arms to Saudi Arabia for use in Yemen and to Israel for arms used in violation of the human rights of Palestinian civilians, and conduct a root-and-branch reform of our arms exports regime so ministers can never again turn a blind eye to British-made weapons being used to target innocent civilians.

• Reform the international rules-based order to secure justice and accountability for breaches of human rights and international law, such as the bombing of hospitals in Syria, the illegal blockade of the Gaza Strip, the use of rape as a weapon of war against the Rohingya community in Myanmar and the indiscriminate bombardment of civilians in Yemen.

• We will work through the UN and the Commonwealth to insist on the protection of human rights for Sri Lanka’s minority Tamil and Muslim populations.

• Appoint human-rights advisers to work across the Foreign Office and government to prioritise a co-ordinated approach to human rights.

• Advocate for human rights at every bilateral diplomatic meeting.

Who is against it? What is your point? Ok you think Israel should not exist, I get it.

 

[BlindBoyGrunt]

He was readmitted last November. He's currently deselected so sitting as an independent and happy to do so rather than remove his comments. Classic Faux corbyn martyrdom.

He was readmitted after being cleared but then promptly suspended again by Starmer's own hand. if he wishes to be regarded as a good or even half competent leader he shouldn't do s**t like this.

I don't think conspiracy theories claiming anti semitism was fabricated is a great defence to corbyn saying anti semitism was exaggerated.

It is a conspiracy. You have so far failed to provide any evidence to the contrary. Where are the demands on the other major parties to clean up? Can you show me?

Obsessed

By showing concern for a racist apartheid state?

British anti zionists don't get irony.....

A lie that you are happy to peddle. You're really not doing yourself any favours here.

 

[Same_as_before]

He was readmitted after being cleared but then promptly suspended again by Starmer's own hand. if he wishes to be regarded as a good or even half competent leader he shouldn't do s**t like this.

It is a conspiracy. You have so far failed to provide any evidence to the contrary. Where are the demands on the other major parties to clean up? Can you show me?

By showing concern for a racist apartheid state?

A lie that you are happy to peddle. You're really not doing yourself any favours here.

You always have an even handed open minded opinion.

I am not too sure where Anti seminism starts and left wing hate ends.

 

[Redben]

He was readmitted after being cleared but then promptly suspended again by Starmer's own hand. if he wishes to be regarded as a good or even half competent leader he shouldn't do s**t like this.

It is a conspiracy. You have so far failed to provide any evidence to the contrary. Where are the demands on the other major parties to clean up? Can you show me?

By showing concern for a racist apartheid state?

A lie that you are happy to peddle. You're really not doing yourself any favours here.

If you still like to think and say that anti Jewish racism was fabricated and a conspiracy in the face of mountains of evidence showing real and documented incidents then there's nothing else to say. The mask has slipped as it always does. The party will move on and away from this dark period. The apologists for anti Jewish racism will be forgotten and the party will be able to stand proudly as an anti racist policy once again.

 

[BlindBoyGrunt]

You might faint, but I agree with every word of that.

My point is, expecting a country with the recent history of its inhabitants to act in what we would call a normal atmosphere, badly put I hope you know what I mean, is a tough ask.

There are people still alive who don't know their parents or if they had brothers and sisters. It does not help that states around do not want Israel to exist.

I am very pro Israel, I cannot imagine what they have been through at the hands of a Western country. I am ashamed as a country we chose to do nothing.

Germany is only 2 to 3 hours away, we knew what was happening, we had no will because they were Jews, if they had been Christian we would have acted.

Can I make clear that in all the time I was in the party I never noticed any anti seminism, and I do not think Corbyn has a racist or sectarian bone in his body. Him liking that disgusting Mural was lazy.

Thanks Same As. But now take one more step and put yourself in the shoes of the Palestinians. Anti-Semitism didn't begin in 1930's Europe, it goes much further back than that. When states were ruled by people with hereditary titles, Jews in Europe were banned from entering most professions. One of the few trades they were allowed to carry out was finance. Now, in times of plenty, when things were going well and there was enough of everything to go around, the nobility took the credit, but when times were hard and there were shortages the nobility pointed to the Jews for not doing their jobs properly. They were used as a buffer zone. So anti-Semitism was alive and kicking in the middle ages and this also gives rise to the popular trope that Jews control the world's financial institutions. I agree with you that in the 30's our response was pitiful and many in this country were against accepting refugees from Europe. Hatred of Jews ran deep and we were no innocents.

So imagine being a Palestinian now. Possibly the only people throughout history to consistently stand with the Jews from before the crusades right up to the 20th century only to be colonised and displaced by a third party and have the land that you have occupied for so long handed to someone else. Then to rub salt into the wounds the new settlers begin an immediate expansion programme taking more and more land as the decades roll by. Imagine being hemmed in to the Gaza strip with blockades on the ports, with energy rationed, with people, including children, being arrested and thrown in jail without charge; children being hit with snipers bullets as they walk to school, people being denied proper medical care and folk having to queue for hours to pass through a hole in a wall to get to work. imagine witnessing your ancestral home and your olive groves being bulldozed for the latest illegal settlement whilst the rest of the world turns a blind eye, and not only turning a blind eye but actually arming your oppressors. This really is state-of-the-art weapons, versus rocks. Jet fighters, helicopter gunships, missiles and warships against home made rockets.

I share your concern for innocent Jewish people, I really do but don't associate them for the evil people who run the apartheid state that is called Israel. We didn't ignore it in Zimbabwe and South Africa and we shouldn't do so now. And remember, many Jews decry the actions of Israel. Even within Israel there are brave Jewish people who march in support of Palestinians. Something I'm not sure I would do in their situation.

 

[r00fie1]

I am as glad to see it as any but it shouldn't be at the forefront of the agenda between members, when the party is in opposition.

Surely we should save these squabbles for when (if ever) the party returns to power and can have actual relevance on the international scene.

Colin.
I take your point about what is at the forefront of most people agenda. And I understand whilst trying to make ends meet, not everyone finds time to look beyond tomorrow.

May I add:

What matters immediately is
having a secure income
a decent home
a roof over your head
a good quality of life
dignity
access to free healthcare at point of need
access to free education for all
good public transport
broadband for those who have no access or infrastructure
support for the vulnerable
support for the elderly
support for the disabled and those with mental health issues.
Support for our armed forces from joining up to discharge.

But we cant have any of the above without:

Oil from the Middle East
Food from across the world.
Cotton and clothing from Asia
Wood and building materials from across the world.
Computer tech from China.
52% of our imports are from the EU.
Workers in other countries being exploited for whatever motive or agenda.

The UK cant be an insular inward-looking political landscape.

Every Party and every person in the UK has to understand that everywhere on the planet is part of the supply chain.

It matters as much to all of us if the price of crude oil increases in Saudi, or their is an arms blockade - because bomb makers in this country make big profits out of bombs.
Climate Change matters because it effects the whole of mankind - so a storm in the USA or melting ice caps can create immediate food shortages and destroy scarce resources.

Some people may not "be bothered", but will have to be made to bother.

The Labour Party is about Leadership and making people do what they didnt want to do.
Its not about pandering to ignorance.

What happens beyond these Island shores does effect everyone of us. Whether we like it or not.


A good many on here have served in the armed forces, whether volunteer / reserve / regular / national service. Many have generations of their families in uniform.

Many Soldiers Sailors and Airmen from the "Commonwealth" served during two world wars - which this Island Nation could not have survived attacks by Hitler without.


Many have given their lives in the most savage and brutal wars over the centuries.

The Labour Party, like our people, are part of one world.

If the door of democracy closes on one innocent to enable the rule of a dictator there is no hope for ordinary people.

The people are the party.


The fight against injustice is not confined to these islands but to every man woman and child across the planet.

We could not stand by and ignore the fascists in Europe in two world wars.

We cannot now watch tyranny trample and torture our brothers and sisters, irregardless of race, colour, creed, religious belief, faith, sexual orientation, gender or disability.
Either here nor overseas.

Unity is strength.

Kier Hardy [Founder of the Labour Party] said:


It suits the racists, the imperialists and the "little islanders" to portray Gran-Bretagne as a fortress against nasty horrible invaders.

United we stand.
Divided we fall.

 

[BlindBoyGrunt]

If you still like to think and say that anti Jewish racism was fabricated and a conspiracy in the face of mountains of evidence showing real and documented incidents then there's nothing else to say. The mask has slipped as it always does. The party will move on and away from this dark period. The apologists for anti Jewish racism will be forgotten and the party will be able to stand proudly as an anti racist policy once again.

Many of my contributions to this thread have been backed up with evidence, links or direct quotes whereas you show nothing but tired old unsubstantiated accusations and second hand lies. You have failed to provide one shred of real evidence for any of your claims. However, if you can adequately explain one thing I will vote for Keir Starmer or whoever succeeds him and you can even fill in my ballot paper for me.

Why is there no clamour for the parties with higher rates of anti-Semitism than Labour, to go through the same cleaning-up procedure. Where is the furore over the Jew hating, anti black and islamophobic racism rife among Conservatives, and that goes right to the top of the party up to and including the PM himself?

 

[Colin Warnek]

Many of my contributions to this thread have been backed up with evidence, links or direct quotes whereas you show nothing but tired old unsubstantiated accusations and second hand lies. You have failed to provide one shred of real evidence for any of your claims. However, if you can adequately explain one thing I will vote for Keir Starmer or whoever succeeds him and you can even fill in my ballot paper for me.

Why is there no clamour for the parties with higher rates of anti-Semitism than Labour, to go through the same cleaning-up procedure. Where is the furore over the Jew hating, anti black and islamophobic racism rife among Conservatives, and that goes right to the top of the party up to and including the PM himself?

They don't tie themselves in knots over it with all the petty in-fighting. That's a Labour thing.

 

[BlindBoyGrunt]

They don't tie themselves in knots over it with all the petty in-fighting. That's a Labour thing.

i'm not tying myself in knots, I just left the party. They don't want me, they don't get my money. But the question still stands, where is the media furore over the other parties that would prove it wasn't a conspiracy against Corbyn's politics?

 

[Redben]

Many of my contributions to this thread have been backed up with evidence, links or direct quotes whereas you show nothing but tired old unsubstantiated accusations and second hand lies. You have failed to provide one shred of real evidence for any of your claims. However, if you can adequately explain one thing I will vote for Keir Starmer or whoever succeeds him and you can even fill in my ballot paper for me.

Why is there no clamour for the parties with higher rates of anti-Semitism than Labour, to go through the same cleaning-up procedure. Where is the furore over the Jew hating, anti black and islamophobic racism rife among Conservatives, and that goes right to the top of the party up to and including the PM himself?

Go read the EHRC report on anti semitism in the Labour Party if you want cold hard facts. That's the European Human Rights Court. No lies, no fabricaction, no exaggeration.

The simple answer is this is the Labour Party, the anti racist Party. We are meant to hold ourselves to a higher standard. The tories did receive plenty of clamour re islamophobia but responding to proven evidence of racism in the Labour Party by saying but what about the tories is just bizarre and straightforward yet very weak whattaboutery. We are expected to do better so when Starmer say there will be a zero tolerance to anti semitism and all other forms of racism that should be taken as red not pushed back against by our own. It should be applauded, accepted and understood if we are truly an anti racist party.

 

[BlindBoyGrunt]

Go read the EHRC report on anti semitism in the Labour Party

Yes, it cleared Corbyn personally of anti-Semitism and only found fault with him for personally interfering with the disciplinary process (a bit like Starmer personally suspending Corbyn) but they did acknowledge that his intervention was to actually speed up the process. I think they found about two actual cases of anti-Semitic incidences.

We are meant to hold ourselves to a higher standard.

No single party should be held to higher standards than others. A world where known racists are given carte blanche is not a world that I welcome. It's like saying that Hungarian football fans may as well get on with it because that's just them.

The tories did receive plenty of clamour re islamophobia

But no media clamour for investigations into all forms of Tory racism. Probably the biggest sleaziest corrupt of them was allowed to become PM.

when Starmer say there will be a zero tolerance to anti semitism and all other forms of racism that should be taken as red not pushed back against by our own.

If you really believe that Labour should be held to higher standards why do you support Starmers suppression of debate regarding the Palestinian people by way of the blunt instrument of proscription? Don't debate with people who have a dog in the fight, just kick the uppity Jews out, is Keirs policy. After all political parties are not the place for political debate or the airing of views.

 

[Redben]

Yes, it cleared Corbyn personally of anti-Semitism and only found fault with him for personally interfering with the disciplinary process (a bit like Starmer personally suspending Corbyn) but they did acknowledge that his intervention was to actually speed up the process. I think they found about two actual cases of anti-Semitic incidences.

No single party should be held to higher standards than others. A world where known racists are given carte blanche is not a world that I welcome. It's like saying that Hungarian football fans may as well get on with it because that's just them.

But no media clamour for investigations into all forms of Tory racism. Probably the biggest sleaziest corrupt of them was allowed to become PM.

If you really believe that Labour should be held to higher standards why do you support Starmers suppression of debate regarding the Palestinian people by way of the blunt instrument of proscription? Don't debate with people who have a dog in the fight, just kick the uppity Jews out, is Keirs policy. After all political parties are not the place for political debate or the airing of views.

Again, if you think that even the EHRC report doesn't prove there was anti semitism in the party and that it was all invented in a conspiracy theory only you know about then I'll leave you to it. Victim blaming never has a nice ring to it.

Any proscribing by Starmer is a walk in the park compared to the vile and toxic atmosphere experienced by many during Corybns reign. I experienced it and saw it many times.

 

[free_pint]

Ben, you're telling others to read the report when it appears you've not read any of it yourself.. BBG is actually advising what's in it and you're just totally ignoring what he's said..

 

[free_pint]

Any proscribing by Starmer is a walk in the park compared to the vile and toxic atmosphere experienced by many during Corybns reign. I experienced it and saw it many times.

I'm no longer a labour member, but a Blair/Starmer supporting hack emailed my work to complain about my behaviour as I openly supported my friend and Young Labour Chair Jess. He literally spent an age searching through Google to find my details, my address, my work etc.

So **** your much more vile under Corbyn bull. I never got anything but love from Corbyn supporters, I'm getting threats to my work from Starmer supporters.

 

[Same_as_before]

Yes, it cleared Corbyn personally of anti-Semitism and only found fault with him for personally interfering with the disciplinary process (a bit like Starmer personally suspending Corbyn) but they did acknowledge that his intervention was to actually speed up the process. I think they found about two actual cases of anti-Semitic incidences.

No single party should be held to higher standards than others. A world where known racists are given carte blanche is not a world that I welcome. It's like saying that Hungarian football fans may as well get on with it because that's just them.

But no media clamour for investigations into all forms of Tory racism. Probably the biggest sleaziest corrupt of them was allowed to become PM.

If you really believe that Labour should be held to higher standards why do you support Starmers suppression of debate regarding the Palestinian people by way of the blunt instrument of proscription? Don't debate with people who have a dog in the fight, just kick the uppity Jews out, is Keirs policy. After all political parties are not the place for political debate or the airing of views.

You really never give an inch.

 

[Same_as_before]

I'm no longer a labour member, but a Blair/Starmer supporting hack emailed my work to complain about my behaviour as I openly supported my friend and Young Labour Chair Jess. He literally spent an age searching through Google to find my details, my address, my work etc.

So **** your much more vile under Corbyn bull. I never got anything but love from Corbyn supporters, I'm getting threats to my work from Starmer supporters.

I am Blairite but that's shocking. I hope you are ok

 

[free_pint]

I am Blairite but that's shocking. I hope you are ok

I am, thank you. Thankfully my work aren't too bothered with what I do with my time outside of work, but it's not nice to know someone's trawling through every inch of you to try and get you fired, because you have different political stand points.