Labour withdraws its support for Rochdale by-election candidate Aszhar Ali

If they vote in the Labour non Labour person, they will get an independent MP, though it would
be nice to see Galloway get in… just to complete this total clown show.
 
Starmer was very slow in disavowing the candidate. Racism aside, a politician is unfit to serve if they hold this kind of ridiculous opinion.
 
All Starmer had to say was.”We are investigating these accusations, in the meantime our candidate will be suspended until this investigation is completed”
I don’t think he is a natural politician, he doesn’t have the background of having gone through the sometimes really vicious local politics where you learn the trade. But, he must have people around him in his background team who have. So WTF happened there. Were they all asleep.
 
Last edited:
Laughing said:
Starmer was very slow in disavowing the candidate. Racism aside, a politician is unfit to serve if they hold this kind of ridiculous opinion.
Click to expand...
To be fair to him, the accusation that Israel knew in advance of the threat of invasion isn't so ridiculous. There is a 40 page document which goes into great detail about the planned invasion which describes just everything that subsequently happened including "a barrage of rockets at the outset of the attack, drones to knock out the security cameras and automated machine guns along the border, and gunmen to pour into Israel en masse in paragliders, on motorcycles and on foot — all of which happened on Oct. 7."

This was reported in the New York Times and the Times of Israel.
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
I wasn't aware of the added context, but having read it it's still unclear whether what he said constituted racism or bigotry. It seems he criticises sections of the Jewish/Israeli press but if for instance his comments were directed at the Jewish Chronicle then they may have been justified. That publication has been caught lying and breaching the journalistic code on several occasions evidenced by the number of court cases they have lost.

What Aszhar Ali initially said was certainly not antisemitic.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is up for debate.
As far as I can tell they haven’t said anything other than they have withdrawn support pending an investigation.
So, innocent until proven guilty maybe
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
To be fair to him, the accusation that Israel knew in advance of the threat of invasion isn't so ridiculous. There is a 40 page document which goes into great detail about the planned invasion which describes just everything that subsequently happened including "a barrage of rockets at the outset of the attack, drones to knock out the security cameras and automated machine guns along the border, and gunmen to pour into Israel en masse in paragliders, on motorcycles and on foot — all of which happened on Oct. 7."

This was reported in the New York Times and the Times of Israel.
Click to expand...

Also covered in Private Eye and Byline Times.

The alternative view that the best intelligent service in the world got bamboozled by Hamas is worthy of more debate.
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
To be fair to him, the accusation that Israel knew in advance of the threat of invasion isn't so ridiculous. There is a 40 page document which goes into great detail about the planned invasion which describes just everything that subsequently happened including "a barrage of rockets at the outset of the attack, drones to knock out the security cameras and automated machine guns along the border, and gunmen to pour into Israel en masse in paragliders, on motorcycles and on foot — all of which happened on Oct. 7."

This was reported in the New York Times and the Times of Israel.
Click to expand...
Bbg I don't think it matters too much what happened. A politician needs to be circumspect until the facts are known.
 
He said that Isreal gave the green light for the Hamas attack so they could invade Gaza and grab some of the land, he also blamed Jewish press for criticism of pro palestinian MP.

Pure conspiracy theory and dangerous to spread as such. Especially from a perspective MP and others parodying such things are also the same.

His comments were described as “appalling” same goes for people who are advocating his comments in some way.
 
Geoff_B said:
He said that Isreal gave the green light for the Hamas attack so they could invade Gaza and grab some of the land, he also blamed Jewish press for criticism of pro palestinian MP.

Pure conspiracy theory and dangerous to spread as such. Especially from a perspective MP and others parodying such things are also the same.

His comments were described as “appalling” same goes for people who are advocating his comments in some way.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Conspiracy theories abound some of which are particularly extreme. But then again some people will deliberately blur the lines if it means the Labour Party is seen in a poor light. And they revel in it.
 
LessoftheLip said:
Agreed. Conspiracy theories abound some of which are particularly extreme. But then again some people will deliberately blur the lines if it means the Labour Party is seen in a poor light. And they revel in it.
Click to expand...
‘Conspiracy Theory’ has become the new norm for anyone daring to challenge a widely held belief.
It is used lazily to stifle debate (IMO, of course)
 
1finny said:
‘Conspiracy Theory’ has become the new norm for anyone daring to challenge a widely held belief.
It is used lazily to stifle debate (IMO, of course)
Click to expand...

But I thought it was stated he fell for a conspiracy theory online.. that was the party line. Are you suggesting he didn’t fall for one, he truly believes it and Labour Party wanted to stifle any debate?
 
1finny said:
‘Conspiracy Theory’ has become the new norm for anyone daring to challenge a widely held belief.
It is used lazily to stifle debate (IMO, of course)
Click to expand...
Some conspiracy theories:

www.nytimes.com

Israel Knew Hamas’s Attack Plan More Than a Year Ago

A blueprint reviewed by The Times laid out the attack in detail. Israeli officials dismissed it as aspirational and ignored specific warnings.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com


www.timesofisrael.com

Israel obtained, ignored Hamas document laying out Oct. 7 attack plan, report alleges

NYT says officials who saw 40-page paper dismissed it as unrealistic, continuing to believe the terror group was uninterested in launching a war
www.timesofisrael.com www.timesofisrael.com
 
The reports that Israel were aware of a planned attempt to execute what happened on October 7th have been confirmed as far as I am aware. I think both within Israel and internationaly. Egypt specifically said the warned Israel October the 4th. While other reports show that the Hamas plan had been known for a year but the relevant people in Israel thought it was a Hamas fantasy and would never happen.

Whether that is enough to say Israel allowed it to happen is open to investigation, but that investigation will not be allowed by the current Israel government
 
Geoff_B said:
But I thought it was stated he fell for a conspiracy theory online.. that was the party line. Are you suggesting he didn’t fall for one, he truly believes it and Labour Party wanted to stifle any debate?
Click to expand...
I don’t know him - so wouldn’t speculate on his thinking and I’ve no idea if the Labour Party wanted to stifle debate. If they did - they haven’t done a great job.

In general I find any reference to ‘conspiracy theory’ amusing. It used to be reserved for the likes of flat earthers.
Sometimes now, if someone disagrees with someone it just gets trotted out.
 
I don't think the 'Israel ignored tip-off' bit is particularly controversial, in the sense that they may have received and evaluated intelligence but failed to attach sufficient importance to it. The controversy is the allegation that Israel knew but allowed it to go ahead as part of some master plan to justify ethnic cleansing.
 
The conspiracy theory is that Israel would allow its own citizens to be maimed, raped, mutilated and murdered by Hamas terrorists on that particular day in order to justify a full scale attack on Gaza.

That is the conspiracy theory peddled on twitter and not denied by people who ought to know better.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top