Rav's gonna be watching

Norman_Conquest said:
I thought as much, not old enough to appreciate what he brought to he area and how it put our club on the map. I would also say what you are quoting is from family members and what you have read years later.
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Well you’re talking nonsense then.

I was a regular attendee at Ayresome from a young age and was well aware of what the club was pre-Riverside. I haven’t even disputed his “impact” as a signing, I just don’t think he himself is a club legend.

My family members can barely remember anything about 90s football. I, on the other hand, can remember everything down to the minute details about it, and I attended every single home game when Rav was here, so I have my own opinions thanks. I was 14, not 4.

What I would say is that part of my opinion is driven by what literally ALL his team mates have said and written about him since. But who are they to know, eh?
 
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1finny said:
At the time the vast majority of players in the world would have wanted to play for Man U or Chelsea rather than Boro.

They came to us because we were flashing the cash ….. not to see the transporter Bridge and roseberry topping
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Would they all articulate that though?
 
atypical_boro said:
He actually waited til we lost the Cup final, and he didn’t have any scraps on cup final day or insist on playing when injured to the detriment of the team. Mind you, Robbo should take the blame for that.
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You can't insist on playing if you're injured, what did he do put a gun to Robbo's head ?

He was mismanaged, as others have said we either didn't do our homework or we did and ignored it.
 
atypical_boro said:
As I’ve said Robbo takes the blame for that.

But come on, he wasn’t a team player was he.
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Not 100% no, as he came with an attitude that he was better than 90% of the team (which he probably was) and it probably showed, sometimes boiling over into scraps etc.

People have likened it to buying a Ferrari and not having a garage to keep it in, I think that's accurate in so many ways in terms of both our facilities, as well as the players we surrounded him with.

The club as a whole was pretty unprofessional in those days and learning as it went, nowadays you'd hope we'd think more strategically about a marquee acquisition like that including how he'd fit in with the rest of the team.
 
The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
Not 100% no, as he came with an attitude that he was better than 90% of the team (which he probably was) and it probably showed, sometimes boiling over into scraps etc.

People have likened it to buying a Ferrari and not having a garage to keep it in, I think that's accurate in so many ways in terms of both our facilities, as well as the players we surrounded him with.

The club as a whole was pretty unprofessional in those days and learning as it went, nowadays you'd hope we'd think more strategically about a marquee acquisition like that including how he'd fit in with the rest of the team.
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Fully agree with all of this.

My comment that he isn’t a legend (in my eyes) I don’t think is unreasonable, however.
 
The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
Not 100% no, as he came with an attitude that he was better than 90% of the team (which he probably was) and it probably showed, sometimes boiling over into scraps etc.

People have likened it to buying a Ferrari and not having a garage to keep it in, I think that's accurate in so many ways in terms of both our facilities, as well as the players we surrounded him with.

The club as a whole was pretty unprofessional in those days and learning as it went, nowadays you'd hope we'd think more strategically about a marquee acquisition like that including how he'd fit in with the rest of the team.
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The club set up is about more than the training facilities too. Boro were not use to superstars, whereas Ravenelli had arrived from Juventus who definitely were. The support from the club probably wasn’t close to what he experienced at Juventus.

As I said earlier. I think more negatively of Boksic than Ravenelli. The club had learned a lot by the time Boksic arrived, but his behaviour worse than Ravenelli.
 
Nero said:
The club set up is about more than the training facilities too. Boro were not use to superstars, whereas Ravenelli had arrived from Juventus who definitely were. The support from the club probably wasn’t close to what he experienced at Juventus.

As I said earlier. I think more negatively of Boksic than Ravenelli. The club had learned a lot by the time Boksic arrived, but his behaviour worse than Ravenelli.
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I don’t have hugely fond memories of Boksic really, personally.

But I also doubt a journalist would ever say “Middlesbrough legend Alen Boksic”.
 
I suppose it all depends on how you define legend.
The bad stuff as well as the good stuff can contribute to a legendary status.
And don't forget the iconic 'shirt over the head' goal celebration. That was pretty powerful imagery associated with him.
 
Rofesleg said:
I suppose it all depends on how you define legend.
The bad stuff as well as the good stuff can contribute to a legendary status.
And don't forget the iconic 'shirt over the head' goal celebration. That was pretty powerful imagery associated with him.
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Iconic is a much better word than legend.

To many he is the face of the Boro from a certain era, as we've established.
 
atypical_boro said:
I don’t have hugely fond memories of Boksic really, personally.

But I also doubt a journalist would ever say “Middlesbrough legend Alen Boksic”.
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But then Boksic didn’t score at Wembley, or play in a Boro side that reached two cup finals. From an outsider’s point of view, I can sort of see why a young journo or writer may view Ravanelli as a legend. He scored our first-ever goal at Wembley and everybody knows who he is. He was a household name.

We as fans may not agree, we may view a Mustoe or a Cooper or a Hickton as a genuine legend - these are open to debate, almost everyone has different criteria I suppose - but outsiders don’t know the minutiae, the reams of players, histories, back stories, that contribute to a player being considered as a genuine club legend.
 
atypical_boro said:
Well you’re talking nonsense then.

I was a regular attendee at Ayresome from a young age and was well aware of what the club was pre-Riverside. I haven’t even disputed his “impact” as a signing, I just don’t think he himself is a club legend.

My family members can barely remember anything about 90s football. I, on the other hand, can remember everything down to the minute details about it, and I attended every single home game when Rav was here, so I have my own opinions thanks. I was 14, not 4.

What I would say is that part of my opinion is driven by what literally ALL his team mates have said and written about him since. But who are they to know, eh?
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I don't think I am talking nonsense and without trying to sound patronising (as Lizard accused me of being), I wouldn't think a 14 year old would fully grasp what was going on. At that age, we are easily influenced by our peers and some of our judgment can be clouded by others.

What we need to define here is what is a legend, and how would we describe what a legend is, I am sure we all have different opinions on what it means. I mentioned (tongue in cheek) that anyone who had played for the Boro was a legend to me. I am sure I would be excited to meet and chat to anyone who had pulled on the red shirt of the Boro.

I would say a legend is someone who is known for their exceptional skill, achievements, or contributions, and I feel Rav fits this bill and so do the rest of that squad that took us to Wembley twice in one season in our first major cup final.

I wonder if your opinion of him would be different if his goal against Leicester at Wembley was the winning goal.
 
Norman_Conquest said:
I don't think I am talking nonsense and without trying to sound patronising (as Lizard accused me of being), I wouldn't think a 14 year old would fully grasp what was going on. At that age, we are easily influenced by our peers and some of our judgment can be clouded by others.

What we need to define here is what is a legend, and how would we describe what a legend is, I am sure we all have different opinions on what it means. I mentioned (tongue in cheek) that anyone who had played for the Boro was a legend to me. I am sure I would be excited to meet and chat to anyone who had pulled on the red shirt of the Boro.

I would say a legend is someone who is known for their exceptional skill, achievements, or contributions, and I feel Rav fits this bill and so do the rest of that squad that took us to Wembley twice in one season in our first major cup final.

I wonder if your opinion of him would be different if his goal against Leicester at Wembley was the winning goal.
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Not sure really, doubt I'd class Job as a 'legend' either tbh. But yes, I think we can agree that the definition of 'legend' is highly subjective.
 
atypical_boro said:
Not sure really, doubt I'd class Job as a 'legend' either tbh. But yes, I think we can agree that the definition of 'legend' is highly subjective.
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Surely, all of McClaren's cup winning team are legends. They gave us our first and only piece of silverware and deserve that status. I would even put McClaren in that and I have a huge dislike for the man. ;)
 
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