Roger Daltrey

DCI_Gene_Hunt said:
Some relevant info for you

• The UK music industry contributed £5.2 billion to the UK economy in 2018.
• The Live Music sector made contribution of £1.1 billion in 2018 – up 10% from £991 million in 2017.
• Employment in the industry hit an all-time high of 190,935 in 2018.
• The total export revenue of the music industry was £2.7 billion in 2018.
• Music tourism alone contributed £4.5 billion spend to the UK economy in 2018 – up 12% from £4 billion in 2017.
• Overseas visitors to UK shows and festivals surged by 10% from 810,000 in 2017 to 888,000 in 2018.
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I love music, by the way. I love gigs and I miss them.
We cant have rules for one section of society. I dont see how touring bands represent a special case. Before health workers, police, teachers??
I hate brexit and it has put years on me. My engineering business has suffered but I would not expect any special treatment.

If big bands are lamenting the good times then maybe the silly tvvats shouldve put their weight behind remaining instead of the usual, insipid, apolitical stance that bands take, nowadays - scared to isolate those who might not agree with them.
60s, 70s & 80s bands liked to get stuck into politics, and I have to say, a lot of what I have learned about politics was started by reading interviews with bands. Think of all the bands speaking out about thatcher - they were inspired to have their voices heard to get rid of the old bitch.
Ive never really liked Paul Weller's music but he always, always talked straight on politics without waiting to be asked or scared to upset - the red wedge etc. Punks in the 70s - The Clash spoke more about politics than music. The Stones made a stance against drug policy. All the bands in the 60s making a stance against war.
Brexit was the biggest political decision taken in generations and todays bands didnt seem to engage.
So fu.ck those that didn't. They have to live with the dire consequences with the rest of us.
 
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MoggasDog said:
I love music, by the way. I love gigs and I miss them.
We cant have rules for one section of society. I dont see how touring bands represent a special case. Before health workers, police, teachers??
I hate brexit and it has put years on me. My engineering business has suffered but I would not expect any special treatment.

If big bands are lamenting the good times then maybe the silly tvvats shouldve put their weight behind remaining instead of the usual, insipid, apolitical stance that bands take, nowadays - scared to isolate those who might not agree with them.
60s, 70s & 80s bands liked to get stuck into politics, and I have to say, a lot of what I have learned about politics was started by reading interviews with bands. Think of all the bands speaking out about thatcher - they were inspired to have their voices heard to get rid of the old bitch. Punks in the 70s - The Clash spoke more about politics than music. The Stones made a stance against drug policy. All the bands in the 60s making a stance against war.
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No sure what you mean in relation to "Before health workers, police, teachers??"

The Govt had the opportunity to include in the settlement a reciprocal agreement to allow musicians to tour as previous but rejected it.

Surely its better now to try and find a solution to the problem that will prevent many bands from touring, earn an income that allows them to continue, to develop and to inspire others and also to generate that much needed income for the economy.

If we do nothing then we'll see less and less bands forming, growing and speaking out against the issues we all face.

Bands do speak out against what is happening but in some respects I think the many many outlets nowadays for them to speak out sometimes makes it harder to be heard. Back in the Seventies I read NME & Sounds and some fanzines, there wasn't much else, Joe Strummer inspired me but now when someone speaks out its lost in all the social media deluge. Too much noise.
 
MoggasDog said:
We cant have rules for one section of society. I dont see how touring bands represent a special case. Before health workers, police, teachers?
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There are several reasons. Including the simple fact that your parallel with nurses etc. is nonsense.
 
I am just lost as to why people could ever expect special dispensation for touring bands in the withdrawal agreement. Eh? There were patently much more important issues to iron out.
People, rightly, wondered why so much effort was put into negotiating fishing rights for people that amount to 0.5% of the UK population. What proportion of the UK population is reliant on touring music bands?
If bands want to make big money and operate as a business then the same business laws we all have apply to them.
 
DCI_Gene_Hunt said:
No sure what you mean in relation to "Before health workers, police, teachers??"

The Govt had the opportunity to include in the settlement a reciprocal agreement to allow musicians to tour as previous but rejected it.
Click to expand...
So I would be right to demand an agreement for 'touring' engineers? I cant be sure but I would put my house on the guess that British Engineering is a far bigger part of our economy than touring bands. And stands to lose much more as a result of brexit.
The whole brexit strategy was a load of ar5e, from start to finish, but I cannot get my head around the idea that, somehow, bands should be given special treatment.
My question about priorities given first to health care workers etc is common sense. If any single group of people should be given special dispensation then surely it would start with health workers?

'We are losing thousands of nurses returning to the EU but thats ok cos we made sure that ed sheeran can still book his stadium gigs in Germany'
 
MoggasDog said:
So I would be right to demand an agreement for 'touring' engineers? I cant be sure but I would put my house on the guess that British Engineering is a far bigger part of our economy than touring bands. And stands to lose much more as a result of brexit.
The whole brexit strategy was a load of ar5e, from start to finish, but I cannot get my head around the idea that, somehow, bands should be given special treatment.
My question about priorities given first to health care workers etc is common sense. If any single group of people should be given special dispensation then surely it would start with health workers?

'We are losing thousands of nurses returning to the EU but thats ok cos we made sure that ed sheeran can still book his stadium gigs in Germany'
Click to expand...

If we'd kept Freedom of Movement none of this would be an issue.

So that's the bottom line - whatever industry we're talkng about - this government cared more about stopping inward immigration than it did about the livelihoods of British citizens.
 
I think my issue with this particular point (and many others emanating from our negotiating position and strategy) is that it was not a fait accompli. Our government actively decided to screw over certain industries when an alternative position could have been taken (sound familiar?)

I didn't see any list of preferences for minimal/maximum disruption by industry on the ballot paper and as such the government should have managed the negotiation first and foremost with the objective of minimal disruption to the UK economy, something I believe they have failed to achieve (or didn't set out to do anyway?)
 
LaPennaBianca said:
If we'd kept Freedom of Movement none of this would be an issue.

So that's the bottom line - whatever industry we're talkng about - this government cared more about stopping inward immigration than it did about the livelihoods of British citizens.
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Their hand was forced. Brexit with continued freedom of movement simply wasn't Brexit and they knew that. The vote was driven by a rising attitude of scepticism towards immigrants. No, it didn't mean all Brexiteers were racist, but it was the big driver behind the decision to leave.
 
MoggasDog said:
I love music, by the way. I love gigs and I miss them.
We cant have rules for one section of society. I dont see how touring bands represent a special case. Before health workers, police, teachers??
I hate brexit and it has put years on me. My engineering business has suffered but I would not expect any special treatment.

If big bands are lamenting the good times then maybe the silly tvvats shouldve put their weight behind remaining instead of the usual, insipid, apolitical stance that bands take, nowadays - scared to isolate those who might not agree with them.
60s, 70s & 80s bands liked to get stuck into politics, and I have to say, a lot of what I have learned about politics was started by reading interviews with bands. Think of all the bands speaking out about thatcher - they were inspired to have their voices heard to get rid of the old bitch.
Ive never really liked Paul Weller's music but he always, always talked straight on politics without waiting to be asked or scared to upset - the red wedge etc. Punks in the 70s - The Clash spoke more about politics than music. The Stones made a stance against drug policy. All the bands in the 60s making a stance against war.
Brexit was the biggest political decision taken in generations and todays bands didnt seem to engage.
So fu.ck those that didn't. They have to live with the dire consequences with the rest of us.
Click to expand...
Agree to an extent. Today's bands just try to keep their noses clean and their powder dry, and seem to want to appeal to every generation, not just their own. They rarely speak out and they rarely demonstrate any genuine character.

That said, I do feel sorry for the ones who can't tour in Europe for the foreseeable, but as you've said, it affects loads of industries.
 
MoggasDog said:
I am just lost as to why people could ever expect special dispensation for touring bands in the withdrawal agreement. Eh? There were patently much more important issues to iron out.
Click to expand...
no one is expecting any special dispensation. We were told by multiple members of the government that this would be beneficial to us, that we would still be able to trade with europe, that we would have free market access with no tariffs and less red tape. Anyone that pointed out the nonsense in this was called out as anti-British, an EU sympathiser, a leftie, and a whole bunch of other nonsense. Now it has come to pass the following industries are all badly harmed:

Fishing
Farming
Finance
Arts
Music
NHS
Motor
Academia
Manufacturing

We have seen banned pesticides unbanned, the 'let parliament be empowered not faceless Eurocrats' has been undermined by Tory MPs agreeing to taking powers away from parliament and put it in the hands of the cabinet and unelected advisors. Admit you were grifted and music is just one example of how most of us will be worse off. Make no mistake, the government will attempt to blame covid, but it isn't, this is disaster economics
 
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MoggasDog said:
So I would be right to demand an agreement for 'touring' engineers? I cant be sure but I would put my house on the guess that British Engineering is a far bigger part of our economy than touring bands. And stands to lose much more as a result of brexit.
The whole brexit strategy was a load of ar5e, from start to finish, but I cannot get my head around the idea that, somehow, bands should be given special treatment.
My question about priorities given first to health care workers etc is common sense. If any single group of people should be given special dispensation then surely it would start with health workers?

'We are losing thousands of nurses returning to the EU but thats ok cos we made sure that ed sheeran can still book his stadium gigs in Germany'
Click to expand...
"My question about priorities given first to health care workers etc is common sense. If any single group of people should be given special dispensation then surely it would start with health workers?"

Don't disagree. I asked because I wasn't sure of the point you were making. I think that there will be some kind of agreement in due course as the NHS will be severely under staffed in years to come

No ones asking for "special treatment" - just to negotiate a solution to an issue that is going to cause long term issues to an industry and prevent future generations of being deprived of a music industry.

It's not just about Ed Sheerans of this world, its about the 100's and more of bands who tour Europe that aren't well known and most people won't have heard of because they are still young and developing. Its about all the venues that will close and the people who work there that will lose their jobs, the impact on the suppliers to the venues etc etc

But yeah you're right, lets do nothing and let it all go to rack and ruin because that's the alternative.
 
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