So Compulsory Vaccinations are Happening Then…..
- Thread starter Colin Warnek
- Start date
JM14
Well-known member
Yeah I get its frustrating, but you have to realise another side to this, buildings full of the most vulnerable people need protecting at all costs, it does seem harsh at times but if they start allowing all kinds of exemptions then it almost defeats the point of restricting numbers.
A more sensible approach would be testing people before they were allowed to enter the hospital but I doubt they will ever have the staff or capacity to do that
MolteniArcore
Well-known member
I agree with @Randy on other topics but it is telling on this thread that he's unable / unwilling to tell us about the restrictions that are upsetting him (other than the one mentioned already which is personal).
It leads me to think that part from the hospital setting he's experienced none recently, which kind of undermines his whole argument. I'm not trying to single Randy out, but he's been asked a few times and keeps avoiding the answer.
As a winder rule I could live with the hospital thing as I understand it. It must be really hard for parents and children but we can see the reasons behind it. Flying too - I understand why we need those restrictions. I aren't award of any others??
It leads me to think that part from the hospital setting he's experienced none recently, which kind of undermines his whole argument. I'm not trying to single Randy out, but he's been asked a few times and keeps avoiding the answer.
As a winder rule I could live with the hospital thing as I understand it. It must be really hard for parents and children but we can see the reasons behind it. Flying too - I understand why we need those restrictions. I aren't award of any others??
Randy
Well-known member
Sorry it was late last night and been busy this morning at work.
Look at what's happened in Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland with the passports. This country has got that threat hanging over our industry in particular which even Sturgeon's government have admitted hasn't done anywhere near enough to combat the spread of covid but has done enough to cut trade by a third in Scottish hospitality businesses at what's coming up to what should be the busiest time of the year. Also the constant threat of been shut down doesn't help forward planning and damages the mental health of employers and employees alike.
Also from another personal perspective, my wife is due to give birth in the next three weeks. Due to covid issues I'm not allowed to be with my wife until she's literally about to give birth even though when her waters break she has to be admitted straight away for a course of antibiotics due to the complications she suffered with the birth of our last child. For those who aren't up to speed with the process of child birth my wife could be in a hospital room by herself for up to 12 hours once her waters have broken, by herself, with minimal support. We've got a hospital bag packed for her, one for the baby and one for me.
It'll be a crazy experience but rules are rules.
MolteniArcore
Well-known member
Sorry it was late last night and been busy this morning at work.
Look at what's happened in Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland with the passports. This country has got that threat hanging over our industry in particular which even Sturgeon's government have admitted hasn't done anywhere near enough to combat the spread of covid but has done enough to cut trade by a third in Scottish hospitality businesses at what's coming up to what should be the busiest time of the year. Also the constant threat of been shut down doesn't help forward planning and damages the mental health of employers and employees alike.
Also from another personal perspective, my wife is due to give birth in the next three weeks. Due to covid issues I'm not allowed to be with my wife until she's literally about to give birth even though when her waters break she has to be admitted straight away for a course of antibiotics due to the complications she suffered with the birth of our last child. For those who aren't up to speed with the process of child birth my wife could be in a hospital room by herself for up to 12 hours once her waters have broken, by herself, with minimal support. We've got a hospital bag packed for her, one for the baby and one for me.
It'll be a crazy experience but rules are rules.
Cheers Randy, wasn't having a go.
Hope the birth goes well - it must be a very stressful time with all this going on too. Like I previously said, I think the majority understands the hospital stuff (but that obviously doesn't detract from the stress and worry in your position.)
It must be a nightmare with the planning in the trade - as a former landlord myself I totally get that - I suppose it's made worse with how this Government deals with Covid. They don't like clear and concise messaging and certainly aren't honest with the public.
So in England, basically you are saying in your day to day life that you are unaffected with regards to Covid restrictions other than your hospital experiences. From that I totally understand why you are annoyed with it all but it kind of backs up what many are saying on here - that normal life is pretty much back to normal.
The work thing is the 'threat of restrictions' rather than current restrictions I presume and not knowing if we'll lockdown again, or bring in passports etc.
Again, good luck with the birth! Maybe pop a poll on and we can help name said child
Scrote
Well-known member
Hollywood??
"[so-called scientists] switched the story" - just like they did with gravity. 200 years of Newtonian physics which was perfectly reasonable and then along comes that upstart Einstein and switches the story. Just can't be trusted to leave well alone these "so-called scientists".
Laughing
Well-known member
As I mentioned pages ago on this thread some care homes are refusing essential care giver status to family members with no reason being given. This ultimately means that some vulnerable residents haven't seen a family member for almost 2 years. That's a country mile away from "almost back to normal".
Now the rent suspension has ended people are losing their homes.
For most of us life is pretty normal, it's not normal for some.
Now the rent suspension has ended people are losing their homes.
For most of us life is pretty normal, it's not normal for some.
Randy
Well-known member
Cheers Randy, wasn't having a go.
Hope the birth goes well - it must be a very stressful time with all this going on too. Like I previously said, I think the majority understands the hospital stuff (but that obviously doesn't detract from the stress and worry in your position.)
It must be a nightmare with the planning in the trade - as a former landlord myself I totally get that - I suppose it's made worse with how this Government deals with Covid. They don't like clear and concise messaging and certainly aren't honest with the public.
So in England, basically you are saying in your day to day life that you are unaffected with regards to Covid restrictions other than your hospital experiences. From that I totally understand why you are annoyed with it all but it kind of backs up what man saying on here - that normal life is pretty much back to normal.
The work thing is the 'threat of restrictions' rather than current restrictions I presume and not knowing if we'll lockdown again, or bring in passports etc.
Again, good luck with the birth! Maybe pop a poll on and we can help name said child
I know you weren't having a go Molten, there are only a couple on here who do.
Unfortunately the child already has a name but suggestions are welcomed for a boy.
Andy_W
Well-known member
I can't believe there's people still questioning the vaccines being the way out, they've literally been the main reason any of us have been allowed out to the pub since April, workplaces operating as "normal", had a good time for the Euro's, for the whole of the summer and since.
Thankfully, I've been at pretty much 99% "normal" operation since April. It's not 100% but I don't feel restricted in any kind of way now, and certainly have zero fear. Obviously some others may be or feel more restricted, depends on their health or what services they're using.
Obviously there's still some pretty major restrictions with healthcare, and for their visitors, which must be a nightmare for those that need them, and everyone is sympathetic to that, but I can understand why they're there. They're far from ideal, but are certainly unfortunately necessary, and the only real simple solution to that. The restrictions for healthcare are in place though as a risk reduction measure and at a cost of where we're not restricted elsewhere, it's a balancing act, has to be give and take.
Yes, the vaccines wane, they were always going to, especially since they were designed for the original strain, never mind for Alpha or Delta. The fact they still offer major protection against these is well worth them having waning protection which can simply be boosted, as proven.
What is good to see is that the coverage/ antibody/ protection levels of those who had their boosters a long time ago is still exceptionally high. I think I read about one guy (the first guy) who had his Moderna booster 8 months ago, and his protection levels are still off the scale. Each vaccine offers higher and longer protection than the last, like with mot vaccines which require multiple doses or boosters. Pfizer is extremely similar to Moderna, and the AZ booster seemingly brings that on a par with those two, which is great.
I'm not sure why people mention "Are we meant to have a booster every 3 months forever?", well I know why they do it, it's to try and undermine the vaccines, for various reasons. We've not done this (boosters every 3 month), nowhere has, and the duration between each one would be longer. If we had done this we would have people booking their 5th for next month!
Our most at risk had the first in Dec/Jan, their second in Feb/March/ April and their boosters started in October, which is 6/7 months later, not three, and they are by far the most at risk, and have the worst immune systems. Coverage could last twice as long as the previous coverage, which probably means the most at risk get boosted yearly, at the absolute worst, which they pretty much do for Flu anyway and it could even end up being combined with those. They probably won't even need it every year (after next year), but it would just make sense to do it anyway, if Covid is still around (which it will be).
Delta changed all the rules, changed the maths, and also changed what we need to do to combat those, virus evolve, and so should the thinking to combat those.
Our advanced vaccine rollout has cost us recently (for hospitalisations), it's effectively brought the waning forward, the same happened to Israel before us, but now look where they are, after their boosters. We're heading the right way on that too now.
We likely will have a "better" winter than some EU countries as our vaccines/ boosters have been rolled out well/ early, uptake has been good and as we've been "open" for 6/7 months, we've built up more infections/ natural immunity too. The plan was clearly to bring our wave forward, or just maintain infection, as we didn't want it hitting in winter, all at once, which is what is happening to some other places, and why they've now got a problem. Their problem is different to ours.
Some countries are paying the price for a poor vaccine uptake, but if the people won't protect themselves, I can't really blame their governments for taking it out of their hands with restrictions or vaccine mandates, to protect their healthcare. It's reactive mind, and it should have been preventative. We likely won't need those restrictions/ mandates as a whole, as we've had the vaccines and the cases, and there's little sign we will stop both.
Kids (the only largely unvaccinated groups) have been the driver for our recent case surges, and there's ultimately been spill over from this, it was always going to happen until vaccine coverage, or cases got high enough to overcome Delta, or match it, which is about where we are now.
Thankfully, I've been at pretty much 99% "normal" operation since April. It's not 100% but I don't feel restricted in any kind of way now, and certainly have zero fear. Obviously some others may be or feel more restricted, depends on their health or what services they're using.
Obviously there's still some pretty major restrictions with healthcare, and for their visitors, which must be a nightmare for those that need them, and everyone is sympathetic to that, but I can understand why they're there. They're far from ideal, but are certainly unfortunately necessary, and the only real simple solution to that. The restrictions for healthcare are in place though as a risk reduction measure and at a cost of where we're not restricted elsewhere, it's a balancing act, has to be give and take.
Yes, the vaccines wane, they were always going to, especially since they were designed for the original strain, never mind for Alpha or Delta. The fact they still offer major protection against these is well worth them having waning protection which can simply be boosted, as proven.
What is good to see is that the coverage/ antibody/ protection levels of those who had their boosters a long time ago is still exceptionally high. I think I read about one guy (the first guy) who had his Moderna booster 8 months ago, and his protection levels are still off the scale. Each vaccine offers higher and longer protection than the last, like with mot vaccines which require multiple doses or boosters. Pfizer is extremely similar to Moderna, and the AZ booster seemingly brings that on a par with those two, which is great.
I'm not sure why people mention "Are we meant to have a booster every 3 months forever?", well I know why they do it, it's to try and undermine the vaccines, for various reasons. We've not done this (boosters every 3 month), nowhere has, and the duration between each one would be longer. If we had done this we would have people booking their 5th for next month!
Our most at risk had the first in Dec/Jan, their second in Feb/March/ April and their boosters started in October, which is 6/7 months later, not three, and they are by far the most at risk, and have the worst immune systems. Coverage could last twice as long as the previous coverage, which probably means the most at risk get boosted yearly, at the absolute worst, which they pretty much do for Flu anyway and it could even end up being combined with those. They probably won't even need it every year (after next year), but it would just make sense to do it anyway, if Covid is still around (which it will be).
Delta changed all the rules, changed the maths, and also changed what we need to do to combat those, virus evolve, and so should the thinking to combat those.
Our advanced vaccine rollout has cost us recently (for hospitalisations), it's effectively brought the waning forward, the same happened to Israel before us, but now look where they are, after their boosters. We're heading the right way on that too now.
We likely will have a "better" winter than some EU countries as our vaccines/ boosters have been rolled out well/ early, uptake has been good and as we've been "open" for 6/7 months, we've built up more infections/ natural immunity too. The plan was clearly to bring our wave forward, or just maintain infection, as we didn't want it hitting in winter, all at once, which is what is happening to some other places, and why they've now got a problem. Their problem is different to ours.
Some countries are paying the price for a poor vaccine uptake, but if the people won't protect themselves, I can't really blame their governments for taking it out of their hands with restrictions or vaccine mandates, to protect their healthcare. It's reactive mind, and it should have been preventative. We likely won't need those restrictions/ mandates as a whole, as we've had the vaccines and the cases, and there's little sign we will stop both.
Kids (the only largely unvaccinated groups) have been the driver for our recent case surges, and there's ultimately been spill over from this, it was always going to happen until vaccine coverage, or cases got high enough to overcome Delta, or match it, which is about where we are now.
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sherlock
Well-known member
But you want to make life normal for some by making life impossible for others such as the CEV and the immunocompromised.
Laughing
Well-known member
Shouldn't your parents be monitoring your Internet usage?
On the subject of your post, what makes you think I want to make life worse for anyone?
sherlock
Well-known member
You champion vaccine choice, thereby prolonging the pandemic. The inevitable outcome of this is that as you and your ilk return to 'normal', those CEV/immunocompromised will be confined to their homes ort risk death every time they leave. How does that not make their lives worse?
And while we're at it, you still haven't explained your blatant lie from earlier in the thread when you claimed Austria had a vaccine take up of 43%?
Laughing
Well-known member
I don't champion anything and if you want a conversation with me you will have to grow up a bit and stop calling people pricks.
You really are a bit worthless as far as conversation goes.
sherlock
Well-known member
Randy
Well-known member
You've avoided mine. Does everyone now have to live like those with immune deficiency?
sherlock
Well-known member
No, my suggestion is that instead of having the 'healthy' live 100% normally meaning the 'vulnerable' need to live at 0% normal, we have everyone live at 75% normality. It's fair and it provides the best balance of freedom and caution.
Laughing's turn now..why did you lie?
Randy
Well-known member
For how long?
sherlock
Well-known member
For as long as it takes
Randy
Well-known member
No thanks, covid is here to stay.