Laughing
Well-known member
Not what I said, was it
So Compulsory Vaccinations are Happening Then…..
- Thread starter Colin Warnek
- Start date
FabioPorkpie
Well-known member
I’m sorry, maybe I’m completely misinterpreting this-
And -
Whatever, it’s Sunday. More important things going on …..Sunday roast on the go. Enjoy the rest of the weekend!
Warwickboro
Well-known member
Day 7 for me, runny nose and thats it, this affects people in different ways, i obviously got lucky, oh and I'm classed as mediaclly vulnerable btw. Really do think its time to consider abandoning isolation rules now, I've done it (isolated) but without going into details about my work I've actually done more harm than good by isolating
And you know that because you inspected them all?
Randy
Well-known member
Look up NHS 100K on twitter.
80,300 at risk of been dismissed in the next few weeks.
Government now looking at 'pausing' the mandatory vaccinations. Also, look abroad this weekend, Belgium, Germany, France,a Czech Republic, Croatia, all seeing protests against mandatory vaccination.
Laughing
Well-known member
Liamo's assetion also ignores the fact that the BMA, who's primary role is to represent doctors and nurses are against mandated vaccinations.
Randy
Well-known member
British Medical Association? Yeah they are leaders of the anti vaxx movement.
Adi_Dem
Well-known member
Aren't you doing the same in reverse? Drawing the conclusion that most do not support it based on a protest in which it is widely acknowledged that a material proportion had nothing to do with the NHS holds no water.
In fact, the evidence within the NHS reveals the reverse. And as we have already established, mandatory vaccination already exists.
Laughing
Well-known member
No Adi I am not. I cited the gmc and specifically the BMA who are against mandated vaccinations. The BMA who's primary priority is to represent its members.
Adi_Dem
Well-known member
So the protest then is a red herring in that sense.
This is the BMA's position:
COVID-19: mandatory vaccine guidance
Our response to the Government's announcement that all healthcare staff in England must be fully vaccinated by April 2022.
Firstly, I think this is an equivocal statement. It is very carefully worded. What it is impossible to do though is to draw any conclusion from this statement as to what the views of the majority of the NHS' is on mandatory vaccine.
So I still think you are doing precisely the thing that you are being critical of.
Laughing
Well-known member
Firstly the BMA article you cite is one of several. The BMA believe people should have the choice" is unequivocal.So the protest then is a red herring in that sense.
This is the BMA's position:
COVID-19: mandatory vaccine guidance
Our response to the Government's announcement that all healthcare staff in England must be fully vaccinated by April 2022.www.bma.org.uk
Firstly, I think this is an equivocal statement. It is very carefully worded. What it is impossible to do though is to draw any conclusion from this statement as to what the views of the majority of the NHS' is on mandatory vaccine.
So I still think you are doing precisely the thing that you are being critical of.
COVID vaccinations: forced to choose
Mandatory vaccination for frontline NHS workers in England could worsen the recruitment crisis and place unbearable pressures on the system
The demonstrations aren't a red herring 100k people demonstrating trumps the I know a doctor argument.
Other arguments used to support mandated vaccinations are equally in accurate. You don't need to have a flu vaccination to work in the nhs. All other vaccinations are only mandatory if you have no immunity. Covid vaccinations are fairly unusual in that, currently it doesn't eradicate Co I'd nor does it stop you transmitting the virus. Most vaccinations eradicate the disease they are intended to protect you from. The main exception, of course is flu, which isn't mandated.
So I stick firmly to my argument that there is no evidence at all to suggest that healthcare staff, generally, support mandated vaccinations, and certainly not when the protection is quite short lived and not much more effective than natural immunity.
Adi_Dem
Well-known member
Why? Both anecdotal, both unreliable as evidence of any sort of consensus or majority. For example, I know several senior people across the north east trusts and the reality in those trusts is that the number of workers supporting it is in the low 90% figures. Again, anecdotal but much more valuable than a 100k protest that Matt le Tissier attended.
This isn't correct:
- Hep B is mandatory along with an immunity test;
- No vaccination is 100% effective for any disease e.g. measles is around 93% for one does, 97% for two doses;
- No vaccine completely eradicates any disease e.g. measles still exists and pockets breakout every now and then;
- The COVID vaccinations reduce transmission and reduce your chances of infection;
- None of the other vaccines relate to a currently pandemic disease.
That's fine. No problem to hold that view. But it is just as anecdotal as any other source provided on this thread, especially the argument put forward that the 100k protest is evidence of anything.
Laughing
Well-known member
Hep b, if I remember correctly is only required for a handful of roles when handling human waste, though that might be hep a.
The no vaccination is 100% effective is nonsense. If you want to eradicate a virus, it doesn't need to be look at TB, polio as just 2 examples. The covid vaccine isn't even 20% effective in stopping people catching covid, despite the early promises.
It's this that makes covid and its vaccination very different to lots of others. It's ineffective in stopping the spread.
As for 90% supporting mandated vaccination. That is nonsense Adi. I am sure you may have been told that. There may even have been a poll. Supporting vaccinations is not supporting mandated vaccinations. Our health care workers wouldn't mandate any treatment for anyone. I don't buy that argument one iota. I disagree with that statement the gmc disagree with that statement and so do the BMA.
Adi_Dem
Well-known member
Hep B is mandatory for all frontliners.
It's not nonsense. It's a fact that very few vaccinations are 100% effective. It is also a fact that COVID-19 vaccination reduces transmission and reduces your chances of catching it. Nothing I wrote in my list is inaccurate and so to call it nonsense is a bit silly really.
Please provide a link to your assertion that the COVID vaccine isn't even 20% effective at reducing transmission.
And actually, even if you were right and this vaccination doesn't stop transmission then that is more of a reason to make the vaccination mandatory since what it definitely does do is provide a lot of protection against infection. Less infected frontline NHS workers = less chance of spread. Any reduced trasnsmission for those that are infected is then a bonus.
Again, please provide me with a link.
Again just calling stuff nonsense doesn't make it so. Just because you don't want to believe something doesn't make it so. Thanks for explaining the nuance between supporting mandated vaccinations and vaccinations though otherwise I might have missed it given how subtle it is. You are simply repeating the same thing: anecdotal evidence to support your entrenched view. You're perfectly entitled to hold whatever view you want but in this thread you argued that the protest was evifence that 'clearly most do not' support mandated vaccine. As I have now demonstrated several times, that is not a conclusion that can be drawn given that it is simply anecdotal and no better evidence than any other anecdotal evidence, including that which you dismiss as nonsense.
FabioPorkpie
Well-known member
For balance regarding NHS100k, because it’s easy to fall into the trap of thinking NHS100k is an organisation that solely represents the interests of NHS staff, this is worth a read. Because NHS100k is not what it seems but has clearly taken in and fooled the usual suspects, exactly as it was designed to do.
Anybody who thinks it was just NHS staff marching over the weekend is mistaken. Piers Corbyn spoke at the London demo, and David Icke, among other grifters, attended.
The NHS100k movement will take in some NHS staff with legitimate and justifiable reasons to be against vaccine mandates, but it’s main purpose is to give an air of legitimacy to antivax organisations and covid conspiracy theorists by sticking NHS in the title of the group. there was an awful lot of antivax literature distributed at the weekend demos.
I’m somebody who believes vaccine mandate for NHS staff is the wrong way to go. But that doesn’t mean I have to align myself with every group of grifters and con artists who believe the same.
Bottom line is NHS100k is linked heavily to the usual antivax and misinformation spreading organisations and voices, as well as the odd far right group (English Democrats.)
It’s all part of the grift and antivax/misinformation networks.
Anybody who thinks it was just NHS staff marching over the weekend is mistaken. Piers Corbyn spoke at the London demo, and David Icke, among other grifters, attended.
The NHS100k movement will take in some NHS staff with legitimate and justifiable reasons to be against vaccine mandates, but it’s main purpose is to give an air of legitimacy to antivax organisations and covid conspiracy theorists by sticking NHS in the title of the group. there was an awful lot of antivax literature distributed at the weekend demos.
I’m somebody who believes vaccine mandate for NHS staff is the wrong way to go. But that doesn’t mean I have to align myself with every group of grifters and con artists who believe the same.
Bottom line is NHS100k is linked heavily to the usual antivax and misinformation spreading organisations and voices, as well as the odd far right group (English Democrats.)
It’s all part of the grift and antivax/misinformation networks.
Randy
Well-known member
Nobody said it was 'just' NHS staff protesting over the weekend. Nor has anyone said the NHS 100K is an official organisation/charity/group, it's merely a collection of NHS staff, some of which have publicly shown their support for the aim of stopping mandatory vaccinations either on their own social media pages, TV and paper media. Like the Tories want, we can't pick and choose which protests are fine and which aren't.
Plus I'll ask you this Fabio, what about the thousands of people protesting against mandatory covid vaccinations in other cities across Europe this weekend such as Berlin, Brussels, Paris and Prague? None of those protesters work for the NHS.
Laughing
Well-known member
The 100k figure I used was more an indicator of how many attended rallies across cities throuought the UK, but I take your point. I don't think anyone thought they were all NHS staff, plenty will have been though.
@Adi_Dem I'll get back to your post later today, gotta work, as fun as debating is, I have to feed shelter the family. Speak to you later
Adi_Dem
Well-known member
I can't believe that your family comes before talking b***ks with me on here!