So now we have no army
- Thread starter Archiestephens_elbow
- Start date
WeeGord
Well-known member
Interesting terminology there Fatcat - look at my response, then look at yours accusing me of being lairy and bellicose. I wonder who is guilty of that exactly given our repsective contributions to this thread?
In regards to the point I was making you often post a lot of stuff on political threads and pretend to be naive or have little / no knowledge of the subject at hand. However, your postings are more often that not positioned as though you're either defending this government or deflecting from their shameful record.
jam69
Well-known member
And yet they woul
But there's no money to be made in troops, its all about lining pocketsIts absolutley insane.
On the nuclear warheas thread - I said that wars these days are not 1980s cold war situations involving nuclear threats. Instead they are civil wars, ISIS threats and the like. You know, things that if you are going to help need feet on the ground.
Nevermind. We have a submarine armed with nukes - that will help with a complex civil war.
FatCat
Well-known member
The thing is you come in on a thread and accuse me of having a pop at Labour - I was neither doing that on this thread or as mentioned many others.
I’ll say agin I have little knowledge of the armed forces - I honestly would not of known if we had 100000 or 800000 soldiers until I looked it up. I’m not really keen for this country to go to war so the 10k reduction I can’t really get upset about from an ideological perspective (obviously I have sympathy for those who will lose their livelihoods as a consequence of that decision) the post seems to be split as to whether the reduction is good bad or indifferent. I certainly disagree with the gvts move to invest more in warheads as I think that is a waste of money.
Whilst I wasn’t defending the gvt I thought the opener “now we have no army”was a bit dramatic given we are reducing numbers by around 12 per cent - that was the one and only point I was making( and not in a lairy manner at all)
So as always from this post I have learnt a couple of things that I didn’t know before which can only be a good thing.
I come in peace wee gord you just don’t need to jump on my threads accusing me of stuff.
WeeGord
Well-known member
Fair enough, and believe it or not I'm not looking to argue for arguments sake either
For what it's worth, my main gripe is that before the election there were huge campaigns in the media and on social media to try and discredit Labour and Jeremy Corbyn as not being able to be trusted with UK defence and that we would be unsafe under them. The numbers within the armed forces were already at a record low for modern times and yet the Tories and their spin machine discredited Labour as the party to decimate the armed forced. Here we are not even 18 months later and 10,000 further cuts are to be made to the numbers within the armed forces and taking us back to number not know since the 1700s when the population was much, much lower than it is today.
As someone who spent a lot of time campaigning and knocking on doors in the run up to the 2019 election I heard numerous people, a lot of whom were previous Labour voters, saying that they don't trust JC, he's a Russian stooge and the he isn't to be trusted, or that we won't be safe with him as PM. They didn't vote Labour and we got this shower instead.
The same is true of the supposed 20,000 extra police numbers, another lie from the Tories. This blatant lying and deception should be making every single one of us foam at the mouth, and yet all we have is largely muted mumblings at most, with the majority just accepting it as not a problem.
I've said it before and I will say it again - this government is the most corrupt and sinister seen in Europe since the end of the Second World War and the lurch to the hard right shows no signs of abating. The parts of the new bill they're pushing through Parliament that restricts our rights to protest with vague references to 'causing annoyance' should be of grave concern to us all. We are sleepwalking into a hard-right dictatorship make no mistake.
FatCat
Well-known member
See I didn’t know all of that about the Tories saying that Labour would decimate the armed forces (Given that context I can see why people would be more enraged by yesterday’s announcements of cuts)Fair enough, and believe it or not I'm not looking to argue for arguments sake either
For what it's worth, my main gripe is that before the election there were huge campaigns in the media and on social media to try and discredit Labour and Jeremy Corbyn as not being able to be trusted with UK defence and that we would be unsafe under them. The numbers within the armed forces were already at a record low for modern times and yet the Tories and their spin machine discredited Labour as the party to decimate the armed forced. Here we are not even 18 months later and 10,000 further cuts are to be made to the numbers within the armed forces and taking us back to number not know since the 1700s when the population was much, much lower than it is today.
As someone who spent a lot of time campaigning and knocking on doors in the run up to the 2019 election I heard numerous people, a lot of whom were previous Labour voters, saying that they don't trust JC, he's a Russian stooge and the he isn't to be trusted, or that we won't be safe with him as PM. They didn't vote Labour and we got this shower instead.
The same is true of the supposed 20,000 extra police numbers, another lie from the Tories. This blatant lying and deception should be making every single one of us foam at the mouth, and yet all we have is largely muted mumblings at most, with the majority just accepting it as not a problem.
I've said it before and I will say it again - this government is the most corrupt and sinister seen in Europe since the end of the Second World War and the lurch to the hard right shows no signs of abating. The parts of the new bill they're pushing through Parliament that restricts our rights to protest with vague references to 'causing annoyance' should be of grave concern to us all. We are sleepwalking into a hard-right dictatorship make no mistake.
The police one I did know about and it must be over a year since they quoted the 20000 number. I Would be interested to know how many net new police officers they have employed and when they expect to hit the 20k target. I’m surprised they haven’t been pulled up on this one more as it should be quite and I’d be surprised if they have even hit a quarter of that target- I’m surprised more hasn’t been made of that.
Don't be; nothing gets made of any of the tory party's or government's failings.
BoroMart
Well-known member
exactly my thoughts, submarines, nukes, drones and other hardware means manufacturing and support contracts to third parties. Not so much money to be made by Tory donors from training a new recruit and equipping them.
BlindBoyGrunt
Well-known member
No, that was a scare story from this government that if Corbyn was elected he would reduce the size of the army.
His actual policy was to get rid of the nuclear warheads and increase the forces personnel.
The Tories are doing what they accused Corbyn of planning.
Johnny Vincents Motorbike
Well-known member
Red Armeee
Red Armeeee
RED ARMEEE
red army
The Boro will always have an army.
Red Armeeee
RED ARMEEE
red army
The Boro will always have an army.
BlindBoyGrunt
Well-known member
Well it's what the Tories warned us that Corbyn would do if we elected him, so judge for yourself.
BoroMart
Well-known member
Every single one of these lies should be banked, used in advertising campaigns with the strapline "Tories, you can't trust a word they say!"Fair enough, and believe it or not I'm not looking to argue for arguments sake either
For what it's worth, my main gripe is that before the election there were huge campaigns in the media and on social media to try and discredit Labour and Jeremy Corbyn as not being able to be trusted with UK defence and that we would be unsafe under them. The numbers within the armed forces were already at a record low for modern times and yet the Tories and their spin machine discredited Labour as the party to decimate the armed forced. Here we are not even 18 months later and 10,000 further cuts are to be made to the numbers within the armed forces and taking us back to number not know since the 1700s when the population was much, much lower than it is today.
As someone who spent a lot of time campaigning and knocking on doors in the run up to the 2019 election I heard numerous people, a lot of whom were previous Labour voters, saying that they don't trust JC, he's a Russian stooge and the he isn't to be trusted, or that we won't be safe with him as PM. They didn't vote Labour and we got this shower instead.
The same is true of the supposed 20,000 extra police numbers, another lie from the Tories. This blatant lying and deception should be making every single one of us foam at the mouth, and yet all we have is largely muted mumblings at most, with the majority just accepting it as not a problem.
I've said it before and I will say it again - this government is the most corrupt and sinister seen in Europe since the end of the Second World War and the lurch to the hard right shows no signs of abating. The parts of the new bill they're pushing through Parliament that restricts our rights to protest with vague references to 'causing annoyance' should be of grave concern to us all. We are sleepwalking into a hard-right dictatorship make no mistake.
zaphod
Active member
The reduction is actually only 3,500, as the armed forces were 6,500 under strength already. One thing I like is a commitment to improving living conditions for soldiers etc.
Some adjustment is necessary, as IMHO tanks and ships are obsolete against a sophisticated enemy being too vulnerable against current (Russian) weapons. There's no situation that we would use tanks, outside of getting involved in an unnecessary war, like in Iraq or Syria. Drones and subs are more important.
I think we should retain nuclear weapons, mainly to demonstrate to our protector, the USA, that we're serious about defending ourselves against Russia, but I don't see the logic in increasing our nuclear arsenal, unless it's a sop to the US's nuclear arms industry.
Some adjustment is necessary, as IMHO tanks and ships are obsolete against a sophisticated enemy being too vulnerable against current (Russian) weapons. There's no situation that we would use tanks, outside of getting involved in an unnecessary war, like in Iraq or Syria. Drones and subs are more important.
I think we should retain nuclear weapons, mainly to demonstrate to our protector, the USA, that we're serious about defending ourselves against Russia, but I don't see the logic in increasing our nuclear arsenal, unless it's a sop to the US's nuclear arms industry.
BoroMart
Well-known member
we have been understrength for a decade because of both recruiting difficulties and funding troubles. Having the budget to maintain 72K troops, doesn't give you the budget to recruit at the necessary rate, or train at the necessary rate. It you think suddenly that we will hit our target numbers and it will only be a 3,500 drop, it won't. It will take another 5-10 years but it will dip well below that 72K figure into the mid 60Ks
WeeGord
Well-known member
Sadly, for many this lie (amongst all the others) won't make one iota of difference and they'll continue to support those who oppress them. The whole political landscape in this country is shambolic whilst the government continue to steal from the public who continue to support them.
This regime makes many of the tin pot dicatatorships seem almost reasonable.
BoroMart
Well-known member
these clips need putting into memes and releasing in teh build up to the next election