So they do want a fight then -new anti strike laws

I'm thinking of voting Tory just to **** everyone on this board off.

Yes I support curtailing the right to strike because I want to get on a F***ing train. Now out of my way you feverish oik! Be off with you!
 
sherlock1969 said:
Small numbers compared to those lost because of Brexit.
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Still numbers.
But they don't fit the narrative do they? 1/3 of the care sector leave the profession every year and have done since long before Brexit and Tories. My missus is on about wrapping it in as the money simply isn't worth the unsociable working hours.
 
Randy said:
Still numbers.
But they don't fit the narrative do they? 1/3 of the care sector leave the profession every year and have done since long before Brexit and Tories. My missus is on about wrapping it in as the money simply isn't worth the unsociable working hours.
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3 in 10 leave every year and have for more than a decade. That's easy above a more normal attrition rate on 1 in 10.
 
BobendBert said:
To be fair if that has had an effect it’s minuscule by comparison to the chronic underfunding and mass departure of EU nationals. It’s a bit of a stretch.
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When taken in isolation. I never suggested it was more than brexit caused. I said enforced vaccinations were a terrible idea, generally supported on this board.

Yeah right suppressing voters rights and the right to strike are from the same right wing playbook.

That was my point and it's valid and has nothing to do with brexit.
 
SmallTown said:
T be fair it wasn't me that said so. It was the Nursing and Midwifery council
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They said what exactly? That enforced vaccinations on care workers didn't impact on people leaving the industry? Because the nursing times says the exact opposite. Or did this council say it supported your stance on supporting a right wing government introducing an enforced new vaccination? I am confused by your response.

You supported the government in legislation that was nothing to do with standards of care and everything to do with moving the Overton window.
 
Laughing said:
They said what exactly? That enforced vaccinations on care workers didn't impact on people leaving the industry? Because the nursing times says the exact opposite. Or did this council say it supported your stance on supporting a right wing government introducing an enforced new vaccination? I am confused by your response.

You supported the government in legislation that was nothing to do with standards of care and everything to do with moving the Overton window.
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No, they said that thousands of workers left due to brexit. I thought that was what your sarcastic "if you say so" comment was aimed at
 
SmallTown said:
I guess we disagree on what vaccines are
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No I think we disagree on the government motivation and reason for wanting enforced vaccinations. It was to see how far they could push the electorate to the right. Some bought into it others didn't.

Let's not forget that whilst enforcing vaccinations for"our safety" their mates were making 100's of millions from sub standard ppe.

Still some bought into it.

Whilst decimating our nhs through lack of funding.

Still some bought into it.

Whilst allowing flights to land in the uk from China.

Still some bought into it.

I had arguments with many folks on here at the time that they were being manipulated. You still believe it was a good idea. It wasn't.
 
Laughing said:
No I think we disagree on the government motivation and reason for wanting enforced vaccinations. It was to see how far they could push the electorate to the right. Some bought into it others didn't.

Let's not forget that whilst enforcing vaccinations for"our safety" their mates were making 100's of millions from sub standard ppe.

Still some bought into it.

Whilst decimating our nhs through lack of funding.

Still some bought into it.

Whilst allowing flights to land in the uk from China.

Still some bought into it.

I had arguments with many folks on here at the time that they were being manipulated. You still believe it was a good idea. It wasn't.
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I do still believe it was a good idea. I'm pro vaccines and pro trying to stop the spread of infectious diseases that are largely unknown to science. You know (at least I hope you do, and you're nt trying to put words into my mouth again) that I agree with you on the rest of it. You see EVERYTHING that this government does as evil, and that's fine, and a good starting point. However, no matter how bad the intentions/ Ensuring healthcare workers are vaccinated from a deadly disease they are expected to treat is perfectly logical to me. And most people I would have thought.
 
SmallTown said:
I do still believe it was a good idea. I'm pro vaccines and pro trying to stop the spread of infectious diseases that are largely unknown to science. You know (at least I hope you do, and you're nt trying to put words into my mouth again) that I agree with you on the rest of it. You see EVERYTHING that this government does as evil, and that's fine, and a good starting point. However, no matter how bad the intentions/ Ensuring healthcare workers are vaccinated from a deadly disease they are expected to treat is perfectly logical to me. And most people I would have thought.
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I don't see everything the government does as evil. I am suspicious of their motivations and sometimes the do the right thing for the wrong reasons.

On the subject of vaccinations. Changing someone's terms and conditions in-job is wrong. It took no account of whether folks had had a previous infection which gave comparable protection of becoming re-infected. My issue is two fold. The first is, as I have already mentioned, it was draconian to fire staff for not getting a vaccination, regardless of their level of immunity. It was done for one reason only, as I have already explained. Unfortunately enough people went along with the narrative to decimate an already struggling care sector. It made the situation worse, it made people less safe, not more safe and reduced the level of care available to the elderly and vulnerable. It doesn't matter whether you think it was a good idea or not, it made things worse not better. That means it was a bad idea. Opinion doesn't really factor into this, the evidence is there.

Whilst people allow themselves to be manipulated this government will continue to do, just that.

the government blaming care staff for the spread of the disease is no different a narrative than them blaming immigration for all our ills. Lest we forget, whilst this was going on and we were in lockdown, downing street were having a month long Mardi Gras
 
Laughing said:
On the subject of vaccinations. Changing someone's terms and conditions in-job is wrong. It took no account of whether folks had had a previous infection which gave comparable protection of becoming re-infected. My issue is two fold. The first is, as I have already mentioned, it was draconian to fire staff for not getting a vaccination, regardless of their level of immunity.
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I guess this is where we fundamentally disagree. It's perfectly reasonable, when faced with a pandemic, to modify your healthcare and take steps to try and reduce spread of a virus that is ravaging the entire world
Laughing said:
It was done for one reason only, as I have already explained.
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Again this is just your opinion. There are so many medical reasons why you are wrong. Again I don't disagree with your assertion that the government does things for nefarious reasons. I just whole disagree with your assessment in this case because it's based on your opinion (which you are confusing with fact) and the are so many compelling medical reasons why it happened
 
SmallTown said:
I guess this is where we fundamentally disagree. It's perfectly reasonable, when faced with a pandemic, to modify your healthcare and take steps to try and reduce spread of a virus that is ravaging the entire world

Again this is just your opinion. There are so many medical reasons why you are wrong. Again I don't disagree with your assertion that the government does things for nefarious reasons. I just whole disagree with your assessment in this case because it's based on your opinion (which you are confusing with fact) and the are so many compelling medical reasons why it happened
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For the first part I may have agreed if it had formed part of an overall, comprehensive, effective set of measures it didn't. That's how I know it was done for one reason only because it certainly wasn't to protect the public. If it were to protect the public the tories would not have:
1. seeded care homes with covid
2. enriched their mates by paying for crap PPE when good quality PPE manufactured in the UK was available
3. Partied during lockdown
4. kept our borders open with no vaccination checks whilst insisting care home workers were vaccinated
5. delayed lockdowns until hospitals were overwhelmed
6. Passed emergency covid legislation that allowed locking people up who were infected and destroying their home.

It's not just my opinion it is staring you in the face.

None of this, of course mitigates the fact that one minute we are applauding our NHS heroes and next we are vilifying them for not wanting to be vaccinated.

You are entitled to your opinion ST, but please apply a little bit of critical thinking when judging why a corrupt tory government might try and impose legislation on the public before blindly supporting that legislation.
 
Laughing said:
No I think we disagree on the government motivation and reason for wanting enforced vaccinations. It was to see how far they could push the electorate to the right.
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The thing that doesn’t square with this line of thought is that literally every single right wing rag, commentator, shock jock, tufton street associated think tank etc was viciously vocal in its criticism and opposition of the legislation in general and particularly compulsory vaccination. In fact, they were the ones completely driving the opposition to it. When the game of government is to push the Overton window and drag the populace to the right, they do so in lockstep with the right wing media and ‘think tanks’. Not at complete odds with them.

In my opinion, I think it was more just a poorly thought through, desperate act of an incompetent government rather than done with any greater long term master plan to pave the way to introducing anti-strike legislation etc.
 
FabioPorkpie said:
The thing that doesn’t square with this line of thought is that literally every single right wing rag, commentator, shock jock, tufton street associated think tank etc was viciously vocal in its criticism and opposition of the legislation in general and particularly compulsory vaccination. In fact, they were the ones completely driving the opposition to it. When the game of government is to push the Overton window and drag the populace to the right, they do so in lockstep with the right wing media and ‘think tanks’. Not at complete odds with them.

In my opinion, I think it was more just a poorly thought through, desperate act of an incompetent government rather than done with any greater long term master plan to pave the way to introducing anti-strike legislation etc.
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Thats an interesting point of view, I don't agree with it mostly because I don't think the right wing press have blindly supported this particular flavour of conservatism. They are still beholden to their readership.
 
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