Solar pannels

[Andy_W]

Numbers don't seem to stack up in my opinion. 10-15 years to make your money back but that ignores the opportunity cost. Invest that money in low cost index trackers and it is 25 years before they are better value, if they don't need replacing in that time.

Until the upfront cost drops dramatically or the price paid to sell your excess back to the national grid then I'd avoid it.

Opportunity cost only applies if you can make something of that opportunity (you can, as can I), but someone else might go and blow that 10k on bitcoin or Sirius etc, the opportunity could be a hindrance , like me when I carry cash. Markets have been crap over the last year or so too, but I expect that to go back up, and even out over 10 years, as do you, I expect.

I think the government should be dishing out interest free (or minimal interest) loans for this though (against a property, not the person), for properties where it's worthwhile. They would need to do the most cost effective schemes first mind. I.e don't bother with solar for houses which don't have good insulation (or face the wrong way), fund insulation or something else instead. Make solar standard on new houses etc, like good insulation already is.

The loan could be tied to the houses bills, so if someone moves they're not losing out, whoever moves in still pays the same rates on energy, until the house's energy loan is paid off, then the bills reduce.

Ie property gets 5k energy loan, bills stay at the same rate, say £2000 a year or whatever, even though they're only using £1500 worth of energy, then after 10 years the loan is paid off and bills go down to £1500. If we did this across the board people would be moving to and from houses with better energy efficiency, and 10 years down the line everyone's in a relatively efficient and green (ish) house. Also need to sort out the grid for the rest, to make up for when there's no sun (ie wind/ biomass and nuclear backup).

 

[Andy_W]

I have a 4kw system. Half face due south and half due west. I inherited them when I bought the house. They were fitted in 2014, so I have no idea if efficiency has improved since then. This is the production from last year, which is pretty typical. I live in North Yorks, so you might see an improvement if you are based further south.

Saving £750 a year there, on current rates, if you're using it all, which seems great to me. It's probably not far off covering the initial cost.

 

[The Ruthsayer]

Saving £750 a year there, on current rates, if you're using it all, which seems great to me. It's probably not far off covering the initial cost.

Sadly I don’t use it all. The annoying paradox is that when you most need it during the winter, production is at its lowest. I’m looking to install a Powerwall or two, but probably just wait till I change the car for an EV. I should have added that I get approx £750 per annum from FIT, though that is ending in 2024 and I’m not sure how much SEG (the replacement) will generate.

 

[SmallTown]

I can't believe anyone wouldn't do the maths. Spending 2 years worth of energy prices to get 2 weeks of energy free a year isn't feasible for most people. Being green has to be cost-effective.

It just amuses me that only green technology vets this intense cost scrutiny. If I was getting a new gas boiler there is no way I'd have such a detailed conversation on return of investment and all that.

 

[Andy_W]

Sadly I don’t use it all. The annoying paradox is that when you most need it during the winter, production is at its lowest. I’m looking to install a Powerwall or two, but probably just wait till I change the car for an EV. I should have added that I get approx £750 per annum from FIT, though that is ending in 2024 and I’m not sure how much SEG (the replacement) will generate.

Yup, we need cheaper/ better batteries/ energy storage from summer to winter, and just overall in general, but there's some big progress being made on that. I don't need it yet, but if I did I'd be looking at what tech is coming up for batteries, rather than definitely outlaying now.

The feed in tariff should be the same as the feed out rate, we're missing a trick on that.

 

[Cambsred]

It just amuses me that only green technology vets this intense cost scrutiny. If I was getting a new gas boiler there is no way I'd have such a detailed conversation on return of investment and all that.

You may need a new boiler. You don't necessarily need solar panels. As they are a relatively new technology to most the scrutiny and need to understand is quite sensible.

Similar to the EV threads. Once everyone has one the discussion becomes less necessary on open forum as you discuss it in the pub instead.

 

[SmallTown]

You may need a new boiler. You don't necessarily need solar panels. As they are a relatively new technology to most the scrutiny and need to understand is quite sensible.

Similar to the EV threads. Once everyone has one the discussion becomes less necessary on open forum as you discuss it in the pub instead.

Fair enough. It just amuses Mr. It always seems to be green tech that gets such detailed scrutiny.

 

[Nano]

You may need a new boiler. You don't necessarily need solar panels. As they are a relatively new technology to most the scrutiny and need to understand is quite sensible.

Similar to the EV threads. Once everyone has one the discussion becomes less necessary on open forum as you discuss it in the pub instead.

Exactly. If this board was around when central heating was new there'd be people asking whether it was better to get a gas boiler or is the fireplace good enough? There'd have been people saying central heating is worth the outlay and others saying their log burner is cheaper.

Green things are new and so there are still discussions to be had. You tend to pay a premium for new stuff so at the moment they are prohibitively expensive for some people. EV vs ICE is a comparison to make, as is Solar vs National Grid. At some point for both they may become no-brainers and we can stop talking about them.

 

[Andy_W]

You may need a new boiler. You don't necessarily need solar panels. As they are a relatively new technology to most the scrutiny and need to understand is quite sensible.

People often only replace their boiler when it breaks though, some old ones might be running at 70% efficiency, and a new one 93%.

If you're burning £1300 a year on gas, then a basic boiler (and a heating engineer not having your eyes out) can pay for itself in around 3-4 years, you'll probably get a higher kW/ flow too, so it will probably perform better for showers etc.

 

[The_Big_Woodowski]

The reason I ask is my energy bill has went from a fixed price tariff where I was paying £85 a month for both gas and electric with Blue Planet (subsidiary of Shell), with 100% renewable energy, that went bust. (not sure why renewables increased so much to produce)

I was then moved to Shell by the government and my bill went to £150 a month, This increased at the turn of this year to £220 a month and now it is looking at going up another 60% come October. Not sure where this stops.

Now when I have been looking through various companies, they all claim to be the best and better than the competitors, all selling different number of panels with different placements, all saying I need a different level of storage and KW production.

I would have expected the advice to be a lot closer/similar. The price has also ranged from £15k (this guy said can put the panels where I think best, I know nothing and was hoping for him to advise) down to £7.5k. These do include for battery storage.

I would like them for environmental reasons and keeping my monthly bills down. However I don't want to be paying a massive premium for the privilege. Also want to pick the right system and not say pay for cheapest when it might not provide me with what I need.

 

[Andy_W]

The reason I ask is my energy bill has went from a fixed price tariff where I was paying £85 a month for both gas and electric with Blue Planet (subsidiary of Shell), with 100% renewable energy, that went bust. (not sure why renewables increased so much to produce)

Now when I have been looking through various companies, they all claim to be the best and better than the competitors, all selling different number of panels with different placements, all saying I need a different level of storage and KW production.

I would have expected the advice to be a lot closer/similar. The price has also ranged from £15k (this guy said can put the panels where I think best, I know nothing and was hoping for him to advise) down to £7.5k. These do include for battery storage.

I would like them for environmental reasons and keeping my monthly bills down. However I don't want to be paying a massive premium for the privilege. Also want to pick the right system and not say pay for cheapest when it might not provide me with what I need.

We can't currently fully run on renewables, and it takes the grid (largely gas) to back that up when production is low and demand is high. Hopefully in the future that will change to fully renewables (solar/ wind) and backed up by biomass/ nuclear etc. All of these still require fossil fuels to maintain though, and are still subject to inflation for construction and operation. Loads of smaller companies went bust as they were selling for a higher rate than they could buy it for, and there wasn't much sign of that changing, or enough in the bank to cover the short term loss.

If I was you, I'd be looking at companies who have been in the solar game a long time, probably at least 3-5 years, maybe even 10. There will be loads of companies jumping on the bandwagon as they see it as a massive growth area (of course, it is) and might not have the same knowledge and expertise (they still could though).

I would think the installer should be telling you where the panels should be best, not the other way around. Some areas may get more morning sun, than afternoon sun for example, depends where you live, what elevation, what you live near etc.

I suppose storage would be down to whether you have an EV (or if you're going to get one), whether you WFH or are retired etc, how much juice your house uses and when, and comparing that to what you're producing and when, then also how efficient it is with using what you produce.

Some companies might just try and squeeze out more than you need to spend, some might be trying to future proof you, there's probably little point feeding back into the grid as the rates are ****, unless something changes with that, but buying a massive battery you don's use, could be far worse. I would expect you can buy bigger batteries later down the line, and maybe add more panels, both of which should get cheaper and more efficient over time.

 

[The Ruthsayer]

If not already mentioned, make sure that the installer is MCS registered. An insurance backed 10 year guarantee is also fairly common.
Good luck!