Still booing the taking the knee

newyddion said:
I mean I get the point.. but do you not find 'players of colour' 'people of colour' a bit weird.. I get the point and I understand that you are against racism in principle.

People of colour sounds to me a bit like 'othering' I get people are different and everyone is unique. but the idea that a person is of colour I find ridiculous. I have a colour.. so then am I not a person of colour? You see what I mean? There are many legitimate and well founded elements that are entwined into our club that share anti racist imagery and messages.. for me they are vital tools in becoming more visible with our anti racist stance. Lots of very subtle messages are creeping into our club and fan base that we do not want to be associated with. Some are well meaning.. but are not progressive. Some are ignorant and damaging without intention.

At the same time there are some very strong messages that are not being promoted or celebrated.
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No.
It's not about separation.
It's about identifying those people, in particular, who are targeted because of the colour of their skin and ethnicity.
If you ask anyone of our players above, they will be able to give first-hand experience of what it feels like being targeted for being of a particular ethnicity. It's an issue some white folks are totally unaware of, because of their environment, isolation, up-bringing and education. It's not about choice. It's about empathy, then joining together to confront racism and discrimination on that basis.
Those who turn that on its head and cry the "white" boys being the “victim” are racist bigots.
Let's ask our players.
How’s about a forum, involving any of the players above?
Some may wish to speak about it face to face?
How's about "A Swift Word" [on Boro You Tube] on racism, abuse, and discrimination with any of the players who care to get involved?

Isaiah Jones
Morgan Rogers
Emanuel Latte-Lath
Seny Dieng
Anfernee Dijksteel
Alex Bangura
Sam silvera
Bryant Bilongo
George Gitau
Alfonso Lindo
Terrell Agyemang
Yacou Traore
Pharrell Willis
Daniel Nkrumah
Prince Acheampong
George Grant
Judah Tawiah
Addis Dore
Amazing Kiasungua
Noah Muwana
Rio Patterson-Powell
 
r00fie1 said:
No.
It's not about separation.
It's about identifying those people, in particular, who are targeted because of the colour of their skin and ethnicity.
If you ask anyone of our players above, they will be able to give first-hand experience of what it feels like being targeted for being of a particular ethnicity. It's an issue some white folks are totally unaware of, because of their environment, isolation, up-bringing and education. It's not about choice. It's about empathy, then joining together to confront racism and discrimination on that basis.
Those who turn that on its head and cry the "white" boys being the “victim” are racist bigots.
Let's ask our players.
How’s about a forum, involving any of the players above?
Some may wish to speak about it face to face?
How's about "A Swift Word" [on Boro You Tube] on racism, abuse, and discrimination with any of the players who care to get involved?
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Hmm.. I really do not think that is the answer. The problem is racist fans.. I want our footballers to solve problems of 'how to get to wembley' and 'how to get promoted'

This problem should be dealt with by the fans.. of course with help from the club. Supporters groups like this message board, Red Faction and 12th man could have a huge impact if properly supported by the club in doing so.
 
newyddion said:
Hmm.. I really do not think that is the answer. The problem is racist fans.. I want our footballers to solve problems of 'how to get to wembley' and 'how to get promoted'

This problem should be dealt with by the fans.. of course with help from the club. Supporters groups like this message board, Red Faction and 12th man could have a huge impact if properly supported by the club in doing so.
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When we have standing sections again them maybe fans can take the knee too - until then (because of the lack of room) it's on the players' shoulders - or rather knees.

Or the manager/chairman of course. Imagine if one or both of them started doing it...

You could argue that by voicing his support for local Tories (after being lifelong Labour) Gibson was tacitly legitimising the culture war anti-woke narratives the Right promotes. Maybe he supports the boo-boys, who knows. If not, it would be nice if he took a lead on this issue
 
It’s ultimately down to the club to keep pushing the message in whatever way they choose but I’d love to see one of our players score tonight and then lead the team in taking the knee as a celebration in front of our fans. Then after the game release a message explaining that’s how we’re going to celebrate every goal until the booing stops when teams do it before games.
 
equaliser said:
When we have standing sections again them maybe fans can take the knee too - until then (because of the lack of room) it's on the players' shoulders - or rather knees.

Or the manager/chairman of course. Imagine if one or both of them started doing it...

You could argue that by voicing his support for local Tories (after being lifelong Labour) Gibson was tacitly legitimising the culture war anti-woke narratives the Right promotes. Maybe he supports the boo-boys, who knows. If not, it would be nice if he took a lead on this issue
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We don't need to take the knee.. but something legitimate should be put in it's place. Steve Gibson is not the only person in Middlesbrough that backed the local Tories.. also Steve Gibson is not the club. Great Chairman but he his not the club and he is not the fans.
 
SilentProf said:
It’s ultimately down to the club to keep pushing the message in whatever way they choose but I’d love to see one of our players score tonight and then lead the team in taking the knee as a celebration in front of our fans. Then after the game release a message explaining that’s how we’re going to celebrate every goal until the booing stops when teams do it before games.
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Ultimately yes.. but the club has been misguided on the issue. I'd love to see one of our players score tonight.. I would be surprised if a choreographed celebration has been worked out this week..
 
newyddion said:
Hmm.. I really do not think that is the answer. The problem is racist fans.. I want our footballers to solve problems of 'how to get to wembley' and 'how to get promoted'

This problem should be dealt with by the fans.. of course with help from the club. Supporters groups like this message board, Red Faction and 12th man could have a huge impact if properly supported by the club in doing so.
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It's understanding what “racism” means which is the starting point.
We know how it manifests itself, but we don't have to hand over the baton to someone else to confront it.
In most cases, the criminals back down when confronted.
Racism is violence, and we have to ask ourselves, if taking the knee is opening the door to the racists, how much violence are we prepared to accept?
It's the racists that need to be confronted, not taking the knee.
 
newyddion said:
We don't need to take the knee.. but something legitimate should be put in it's place.
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On the contrary, we do need to take the knee - for reasons outlined (i.e. to respond to those who boo it). And what is this 'legitimate' thing you propose to put in the place of a globally recognised and understood gesture?

Moreover, as Frozen Horse I think alluded to, it's the fact that people boo as much as anything it that sustains its relevance. There are lots of ways we can protest racism, but this is the only one I can think of that gets booed. All the more reason to double down.
 
equaliser said:
On the contrary, we do need to take the knee - for reasons outlined (i.e. to respond to those who boo it). And what is this 'legitimate' thing you propose to put in the place of a globally recognised and understood gesture?

Moreover, as Frozen Horse I think alluded to, it's the fact that people boo as much as anything it that sustains its relevance. There are lots of ways we can protest racism, but this is the only one I can think of that gets booed. All the more reason to double down.
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I mean if folks are talking about players taking the knee purely in response to players taking the knee... then the message has definitely been lost. We don't need to take the knee.. as much as it being a globally recognised and understood gesture.. it clearly isn't. People took the knee before Colin Kaepernick and it meant many other different things.. now the American gesture has also brought over the American connotations.. Neo-Marxist, Wokey, McSnowflake, Communist, Leftist, Liberal.. y'know all that American bullcrap that didn't make any sense in America but has somehow infiltrated british culture.. now we have English guys on Youtube smoking cuban cigars (as if this is some act of defiance) and they talk about being a patriot.. but they say it in the idiotic American way PAY-TREE-HOT they are also massively critical of a group they refer to as ANN TEEFAH.. anti fascists.. they are ANTI ANN TEEFAH.. not having a fugging clue what that means.. all this is nothing to do with football or Britain or indeed racism or anti racism.

I just want our club to be cool as fcuk.. that all it boils down to really. I don't like seeing our club being being talked about in a negative way just as I don't like to hear our town or fans being dissed.. a lot if the badges and gestures and armbands and all that are a waste of time. If we are going to do something tho.. I would want it to look good and be effective. No point otherwise.. to that end it is no different than recruitment, how we set the team up, our kit, chants, etc etc etc
 
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newyddion said:
I mean if folks are talking about players taking the knee purely in response to players taking the knee... then the message has definitely been lost. We don't need to take the knee.. as much as it being a globally recognised and understood gesture.. it clearly isn't. People took the knee before Colin Kaepernick and it meant many other different things.. now the American gesture has also brought over the American connotations.. Neo-Marxist, Wokey, McSnowflake, Communist, Leftist, Liberal.. y'know all that American bullcrap that didn't make any sense in America but has somehow infiltrated british culture.. now we have English guys on Youtube smoking cuban cigars (as if this is some act of defiance) and they talk about being a patriot.. but they say it in the idiotic American way PAY-TREE-HOT they are also massively critical of a group they refer to as ANN TEEFAH.. anti fascists.. they are ANTI ANN TEEFAH.. not having a fugging clue what that means.. all this is nothing to do with football or Britain or indeed racism or anti racism.

I just want our club to be cool as fcuk.. that all it boils down to really. I don't like seeing our club being being talked about in a negative way just as I don't like to hear our town or fans being dissed.. a lot if the badges and gestures and armbands and all that are a waste of time. If we are going to do something tho.. I would want it to look good and be effective. No point otherwise.. to that end it is no different than recruitment, how we set the team up, our kit, chants, etc etc etc
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As @equaliser says doubling down on it - with Boro players joining it - will at least tell the boo-ers our team/club back the request for tolerance
 
TeessideCleveland said:
As @equaliser says doubling down on it - with Boro players joining it - will at least tell the boo-ers our team/club back the request for tolerance
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But does it send an anti racist message? or does it get our players involves in a huge finger wagging exercise that will only serve to alienate those who do not understand the gesture.
 
There is racism in society and it's part of society that ettend football games.

This isn't a middlesbrough and surrounding areas problem. It's a societal problem. Of course MFC as part of society could and should do something to ameliorate the situation, I am just not sure what that would be. Taking the knee seems to be ineffective in combating the problem. Perhaps the club need to start identifying the culprits and communicating with them to explain why it is not acceptable with bans following.
 
newyddion said:
But does it send an anti racist message? or does it get our players involves in a huge finger wagging exercise that will only serve to alienate those who do not understand the gesture.
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It will 100 per cent send an anti racist message in my opinion. And if people don't understand a straightforward message such as that then they will be getting their opinions from sources that won't change. It's important that everyone feels welcome at the ground(s)
 
TeessideCleveland said:
It will 100 per cent send an anti racist message in my opinion. And if people don't understand a straightforward message such as that then they will be getting their opinions from sources that won't change. It's important that everyone feels welcome at the ground(s)
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in your opinion.. ignoring the fact that there are folks that genuinely don't understand.. if folks don't understand then it is pretty pointless.
 
newyddion said:
in your opinion.. ignoring the fact that there are folks that genuinely don't understand.. if folks don't understand then it is pretty pointless.
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This is the issue with the gesture. It's not difficult to get people onside with a false narrative that all lives matter, or even the much simpler, politics has no place in sport.

There will be some genuine reacists amongst the booers but there will also be some folk who are very easily led.
 
r00fie1 said:
Racism is violence, and we have to ask ourselves, if taking the knee is opening the door to the racists, how much violence are we prepared to accept?
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'Racism is violence'.

It would be easier to identify and expose if that was the case. Unfortunately it is a lot more insidious than that.
 
TeessideCleveland said:
As @equaliser says doubling down on it - with Boro players joining it - will at least tell the boo-ers our team/club back the request for tolerance
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Exactly. It’s not even about making someone agree with the politics behind it. Respecting someone’s decision to protest is all we ask. It’s the decent thing to do but some have a Pavlovian response to boo and it needs to be addressed.
 
TeessideCleveland said:
As @equaliser says doubling down on it - with Boro players joining it - will at least tell the boo-ers our team/club back the request for tolerance
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Agreed.

By not joining in this gesture, I believe some have (willfully or otherwise) misunderstood that Boro actively oppose the taking of the knee. This has created an excuse for racists. Joining in would at least close that excuse.

I also agree with the point that Boro are not responsible for racism in wider society, but that is no excuse for doing nothing. Influence what you can influence, and they definitely can influence what happens inside their own stadium.
 
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