Chappy112
Well-known member
I’ve read some wild takes on here over the years but this is unrealBrave heart had a huge impact on Scottish independence you can deny it all you want it doesn’t stop it being true.
I’ve read some wild takes on here over the years but this is unrealBrave heart had a huge impact on Scottish independence you can deny it all you want it doesn’t stop it being true.
Did the Scottish people elect her or did her party?Of course she does and so do the people who elected her. She's first minister for a good reason.
I don’t know whether you’re serious or not Jedi?Brave heart had a huge impact on Scottish independence you can deny it all you want it doesn’t stop it being true.
If he is then he's an imbecile.I don’t know whether you’re serious or not Jedi?
Not from the comments I was reading regarding that court decision, many were saying exactly that. I also work very closely with a Scottish company that has about 60 staff across the central belt and another 20 or so up around Aberdeen, the general consensus from them is anger that shes hijacked the Scottish flag to be used for division and hate to the point many don’t want to wave it for Football or rugby matches anymore as they don’t want to be associated with them and they also call Sturgeon the poison dwarf.
I haven’t asked 80 individuals I don’t need to they all love to say how much they hate her and her politics, I found it quite surprising and it was certainly unexpected to me as ike you I thought they were universally loved up there.I suppose I just don't really buy that you've asked 80 separate people at your work for their political opinions. I know I haven't talked politics to as many as that at my work. And even if you have, if 55 people in the central office are calling Sturgeon the poison dwarf, are the other 5 going to be confident enough to speak up if they disagree?
This is the trouble with anecdotal stuff. Who knows what you've actually heard from how many. Maybe you only remember the people with a strong reaction and forget anyone who says they can take or leave SNP/Sturgeon.
as ike you I thought they were universally loved up there.
you can Love sturgeon and her politics as much as you want it doesn’t mean everyone up there still does.
Because I spend a week a month up there and chuckle away at what they say about her. Do you want me to get you some written statements when I’m up there next week, will that help you ? How many do you want me to get? Or I could interview them record it and put a link up.See there you go. Go back through the thread. I haven't said I love Sturgeon or her politics. I haven't said the SNP are universally loved in Scotland. If you can't keep track of what people are saying when it's written down on a message board, how is your recollection of what all these colleagues are saying to you meant to be reliable?
Because I spend a week a month up there and chuckle away at what they say about her. Do you want me to get you some written statements when I’m up there next week, will that help you ? How many do you want me to get? Or I could interview them record it and put a link up.
Your the one disbelieving what I’m saying and calling me a liar.
For the record my comments about you loving sturgeon and the snp were meant to be tongue in cheek, a little dig at your staunch defence of them. My memory is perfectly fine.
I feel I need to clarify a few things no one is saying brave heart led to the snp votes per se as that was clearly the Thatcherite poll tax experiment that forever tainted Scotland’s view of Westminster
Didnt you say that was comments on an article? I'd trust that as far as I could throw it these days with the amount that bots and shills get used to influence sway.Not from the comments I was reading regarding that court decision, many were saying exactly that. I also work very closely with a Scottish company that has about 60 staff across the central belt and another 20 or so up around Aberdeen, the general consensus from them is anger that shes hijacked the Scottish flag to be used for division and hate to the point many don’t want to wave it for Football or rugby matches anymore as they don’t want to be associated with them and they also call Sturgeon the poison dwarf.
This was my point comparing her tactics ( not politics) and those of the SNP to how trump GOP tried hijack the us flag.shes hijacked the Scottish flag to be used for division and hate to the point many don’t want to wave it for Football or rugby matches anymore
Christ no, I work for a very large Irish owned family engineering business.Nobodys memory is perfectly fine. That's not how memory works. Everything you remember is filtered through your interpretations and biases. Everything I remember is filtered through my interpretations and biases.
I'm not saying I doubt what you're saying because of something to do with you personally being a liar. I'm saying any workplace its unlikely you'd go around and get every member of staffs opinion on a politician. That would be really weird. And even more unlikely they'd all have the exact same opinion. That's even more weird. Unless there's some important detail you're not telling us do you work for the Conservative party's Scotland office or something?
No two seperate sourcesDidnt you say that was comments on an article? I'd trust that as far as I could throw it these days with the amount that bots and shills get used to influence sway.
to add some balance I work for a Scottish bank and a few people are happy to remain in the UK but majority of people we talk to on calls, team meetings and nights out together seem to want to have their own say. Never heard anyone come out with the poison dwarf thing.
Yes your right I’m saying the poll tax experiment was huge as it started the tories demise in Scotland and it was an uphill battle that they still haven’t really over turned.SNP votes 1987 = 416k
Poll Tax = 1989/90
SNP votes 1992 = 629k
At least this time there's an uptick but honestly I don't think the numbers back what you're saying here either Jedi. They got 839k votes in 1974, so if the poll tax was the big turning point why were they not ablevto match those numbers? In 2001 and 2005 they drop back to 464k and 412k votes so by then I don't see how you can claim there's a lasting poll tax effect.
All I can say to this, as a Scots man with an entirely Scottish family on my mom's side, it's probably b***ks Jedi. One of the early drivers behind independence was oil, hence the skewed funding model. That was introduced to stop Scotland pursuing independence, then came devolution. You would be hard pressed to find a scotsman who isn't a pensioner who thinks Scotland live under English oppression. Forced out of the EU, had right wing tory agendas rammed down their throats yes.I feel I need to clarify a few things no one is saying brave heart led to the snp votes per se as that was clearly the Thatcherite poll tax experiment that forever tainted Scotland’s view of Westminster, that was the catalyst but what I am saying is that it fuelled and continues to fuel this idea that England forced Scotland into a union against their will which just isn’t the case.
What it did do was give them a narrative that they have always been under English oppression ( despite James the first being a Scottish monarch) it feeds into the flower of Scotland style rhetoric and it cleared was a boon to Scottish nationalism.
That wouldn't get them away from Tories. Maybe the current Conservative party but post independence the SNP's raison d'etre will have gone and they just become a traditional party. They'll be competing for votes against Scottish Labour and Scottish Tories. The left side will be split, and the Tories will dominate just as they do in England. The SNP will probably be the biggest party on the left but the Tories (or similar with a different name) will be the major party on the right.Good on the Scots - I'd be voting for independence. Anything to get away from the Tories.
There are many reasons people don't vote for the party they really want. The FPTP system means most constituencies are a 2 party choice. Every other party is a protest or tactical. I know many people would prefer to vote Green for example but vote Labour because otherwise the Tories win. A general election is not a very good place to draw conclusions for a referendum style question. The SNP had 6 seats in Westminster the GE before the independence referendum so it wasn't like there was a clamour for it being reflected there even know the underlying demand for it was 40%ish. An independence poll on several regions around the UK might be a lot closer to wanting independence than the GE results indicate.Again though, why don't we see the same elsewhere if that's all it is? The Yorkshire Party averaged about 2% of votes in the seats they stood in, in 2019. They're a non tory party, prioritising a region, and without an independence policy.
Like it or not, the independence situation in Scotland is unique for the UK.