Tesla drivers…

[BoroMart]

I wouldn't. I'd hire a diesel if I was driving from one end of the country to another. 🫡
Done it before a couple of times and will more than likely do it again even with my new car. Have never wanted to put the miles on my own when it's fairly cheap considering to hire someone elses car and put in the miles on that without having to worry about breakdowns (replacement car sent), tax, insurance etc.

putting miles on an EV isn't such a devaluing thing to do, no moving parts see.

 

[BoroMart]

The reason why averages aren't important is because everything is fine at the average. On a 20 mile drive you probably don't need to charge or put petrol in so it's irrelevant. Not considering the times you have to drive 200+ is just ignorant.

I drive 200 plus from kent to Durham 3 or 4 times a year, it really isn't a hassle, I stop at Grantham, get a bite to eat, have a pee and 5 mins after that I'm fully charged and ready to go. I'd love someone to explain how that's a pain. I usually stop for a coffee at Scotch Corner and top up for the weekend, then stop at Grantham on the way home. No one is ignoring the 200 mile trip, its been addressed multiple times. People having had different experiences to you doesn't make them ignorant, does it.

When I used to drive my old car, I'd stop at Grantham for food and pee, stop somewhere over the weekend to top up with fuel for the journey home and stop at Grantham on the way back.

It's like-for-like. The big difference is the daily use, I don't ever go for petrol, I used to every 2 or so.

 

[xxlshirts_fit_all]

putting miles on an EV isn't such a devaluing thing to do, no moving parts see.

The battery life does depreciate though… doesn’t it?

don’t shoot me down though.. I’ve got one, I enjoy it but I do see why others a sceptical about them or even don’t like them…

each to their own, it’s difficult to get everyone to agree a point so sometimes just best agreeing to disagree, even if they’re wrong in their view…

 

[Nano]

I drive 200 plus from kent to Durham 3 or 4 times a year, it really isn't a hassle, I stop at Grantham, get a bite to eat, have a pee and 5 mins after that I'm fully charged and ready to go. I'd love someone to explain how that's a pain. I usually stop for a coffee at Scotch Corner and top up for the weekend, then stop at Grantham on the way home. No one is ignoring the 200 mile trip, its been addressed multiple times. People having had different experiences to you doesn't make them ignorant, does it.

When I used to drive my old car, I'd stop at Grantham for food and pee, stop somewhere over the weekend to top up with fuel for the journey home and stop at Grantham on the way back.

It's like-for-like. The big difference is the daily use, I don't ever go for petrol, I used to every 2 or so.

Like I said, you've got a Tesla so your experience is different than other EVs. Scotch Corner is Tesla only and over 100Kw so it's easy to get a charger for you. Have a look for 100Kw+ chargers on your route if you exclude Tesla only. The options are rubbish. They are especially on Teesside and the motorways around Teesside. If you can get a charger is probably only a 50Kw charger then you have to stop for at least twice as long as you do with your Tesla. Bet you never have to queue for the single charger either. How many Tesla chargers are there at Grantham and Scotch Corner? 8, 12, 16?

As Andy also said above, it becomes less of an issue the further you go because you pretty much have to stop. Your trip is 300m, not 200. It's unlikely you'd ever choose to do that without stopping which isn't the same for a 200m journey so the additional time is less.

 

[Randy]

putting miles on an EV isn't such a devaluing thing to do, no moving parts see.

Like a hoverboard?

 

[SmallTown]

The battery life does depreciate though… doesn’t it?

That's another thing that has been exaggerated.

It's is correct it does. But, early cars like the original leaf aside, not to the levels people think it does. And ICE engines also lose efficiency over time which causes a similar range loss.
That's the exaggeration bit people people need to counter. The anti EV brigade take a fact such as batteries degrade or EV take longer to refuel and then twist that fact into something it isn't. Hence why Boromart and I keep pointing out that day to day it's easier to refuel than an ICE.

The university of Warwick did a study and reckons that batteries will be at around seventy percent capacity when the car itself is no longer used. That's not bad at all.

And in Japan they have even turned old leaf batteries into a 1MW storage battery. It seems the batteries are actually outliving the cars!

 

[SmallTown]

Like I said, you've got a Tesla so your experience is different than other EVs. Scotch Corner is Tesla only and over 100Kw so it's easy to get a charger for you. Have a look for 100Kw+ chargers on your route if you exclude Tesla only. The options are rubbish. They are especially on Teesside and the motorways around Teesside. If you can get a charger is probably only a 50Kw charger then you have to stop for at least twice as long as you do with your Tesla. Bet you never have to queue for the single charger either. How many Tesla chargers are there at Grantham and Scotch Corner? 8, 12, 16?

As Andy also said above, it becomes less of an issue the further you go because you pretty much have to stop. Your trip is 300m, not 200. It's unlikely you'd ever choose to do that without stopping which isn't the same for a 200m journey so the additional time is less.

I understand what you are saying and it's true the infrastructure need to improve but here's the thing: if you live in Teesside you don't need fast charging to be in Teesside. You need it to be 200 miles away.
On a Tesla forum I was told I was lucky because there are way more superchargers in west London for some reason than anywhere else in the country. But that's no good to me because I always have charge here. I don't use them.

 

[MolteniArcore]

Lack of understanding and fearmongering makes people anxious too.

We've had a fuel shortage a few times, or panic buying in the last few years haven't we? Don't want to fearmonger, but these may become more common too, as we demand less fuel and as the supply of it is reliant on morons.

If I'm going to an area where there's a lack of charger choice on route, or nothing at the destination I would just stop sooner, but for much less time and rely on zap map. I've had zero instances where a charger broke, or wasn't avialible when I got there and there wasn't a free alternative. Like I say though, I like most don't need to rely on public chargers much, and the plug at home is more relaible than any car fuel source.

Your example is a bit of a one-off/ extreme though isn't it? How many people do this/ how many times a year? A drive 200 miles/ 4 hours with kids seemingly where you don't want to stop, and then having to drive again all weekend, when you get there, to places wiht no chargers seems a bit rough on you all to be fair, you especially. That 200 miles is on the verge of where most would try and push through without stopping though, which is what I used to do, and get stressed. Now I would just stop at 150 and top up to 80% in half an hour, and do the same on the way back. I'd stop on the way down in an ICE now too. Funny thing is I do similar EV trips to the southwest, 300 miles, but because it's a longer drive, the stop is expected anyway. Still only works out 1.5 hrs total charging/ stops mind. Seems like we're visiting there often (missus parents), but it's actually only a few times a year. This ends up being 90% of my total EV public charger use.

I don't drive a Tesla, but I've had a 200 range car and now a 250, both using CCS and never used a Tesla supercharger, I don't see what the problem is in the UK.

There are still plenty of 100kW+ chargers, image bleow, and three times as many more 50-100 and most cars wouldn't be drawing more than 75-100 for much time anyway, the 50-100 chargers aren't much worse in reality, and often suit where you want to stop better.
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Sure there are some rare 3-4/10 inconveniences (or rethinking) with an EV, but for most there a hell of a lot more 1-2/10 ICE inconveniences, which add up to a hell of a lot more, and that's only fuelling. Not all ICE's have 500 mile tanks either, most cars are closer to 300.

Again though, only basing this on 200+ range cars, home charging and ~12k miles a year, but that covers most people in the market for newer cars I expect.

When you look at that map and see how many chargers are available on the M6, M1 & A1 you wonder why range anxiety is even a thing! There are hundreds!!

Personally I think range anxiety is just a lazy argument made by people who just don't want EV - they don't know why, they just don't want one. That is fine, just say that, don't make things up!

 

[SmallTown]

When you look at that map and see how many chargers are available on the M6, M1 & A1 you wonder why range anxiety is even a thing! There are hundreds!!

Personally I think range anxiety is just a lazy argument made by people who just don't want EV - they don't know why, they just don't want one. That is fine, just say that, don't make things up!

That last line is exactly correct. I don't know why they have to lie about EV.


A few people on here have said EVs leave them cold, they have no emotional connection to them. As a keen driver and petrolhead I can confirm this is correct. In an ideal world I'd have something silly like a TVR for driving fun. My EV is probably the biggest "drivers" EV you can get, built specifically to target the BMW M3 and it is NOT engaging to drive. at all. It's just the way we are going though. EV are better for day to driving than ICE: maintainance costs, fuel costs, convenience, performance, all better

 

[Randy]

That last line is exactly correct. I don't know why they have to lie about EV.


A few people on here have said EVs leave them cold, they have no emotional connection to them. As a keen driver and petrolhead I can confirm this is correct. In an ideal world I'd have something silly like a TVR for driving fun. My EV is probably the biggest "drivers" EV you can get, built specifically to target the BMW M3 and it is NOT engaging to drive. at all. It's just the way we are going though. EV are better for day to driving than ICE: maintainance costs, fuel costs, convenience, performance, all better

If it's targeting the M3 and isn't engaging at all to drive then the designers need to go back to drawing board. Turn the assists off on an M3, of various different models and facelifts and its a pure joy to wrestle with.

 

[BoroMart]

The battery life does depreciate though… doesn’t it?

of course, but most EVs have a better warranty than a standard car. So certainly int he first 4 or 5 years of a cars life the devaluation will be low and of course the lack of EVs in teh second hand market is keeping the value inflated right now and will probably continue for 10 years.

each to their own, it’s difficult to get everyone to agree a point so sometimes just best agreeing to disagree, even if they’re wrong in their view…

absolutely, that's why I'm trying to just stick to facts which can't be argued rather than emotional elements of owning a car.

 

[BoroMart]

Like I said, you've got a Tesla so your experience is different than other EVs. Scotch Corner is Tesla only and over 100Kw so it's easy to get a charger for you. Have a look for 100Kw+ chargers on your route if you exclude Tesla only. The options are rubbish. They are especially on Teesside and the motorways around Teesside.

the non-Tesla infrastructure certainly isn't up to scratch yet....but it is improving at a rapid pace. Teesside is way behind as always.

 

[BoroMart]

A few people on here have said EVs leave them cold, they have no emotional connection to them. As a keen driver and petrolhead I can confirm this is correct.

you can confirm that for you it's correct, but others will feel different.

 

[SmallTown]

If it's targeting the M3 and isn't engaging at all to drive then the designers need to go back to drawing board. Turn the assists off on an M3, of various different models and facelifts and its a pure joy to wrestle with.

It is exactly doing that. and it beats it in most areas, performance wise, price wise, it even has a better range!

I do have a track mode too. Maybe that would change my mind?

I guess you've never dirven a Model 3 performacne so can't really judge? I'm just assuming the M3 will be better. I should take mine to a track to find out

 

[SmallTown]

you can confirm that for you it's correct, but others will feel different.

I meant there is soethign about driving an ICE the petorlhead likes. Maybe it's manual gears (though rarer these days) the roar of the exhuasts, having to wrestle the car and mange the power, not jsut having it all there. EV's are't drivers cars yet. Mine is as close as you can get.

 

[BoroMart]

I meant there is soethign about driving an ICE the petorlhead likes. Maybe it's manual gears (though rarer these days) the roar of the exhuasts, having to wrestle the car and mange the power, not jsut having it all there. EV's are't drivers cars yet. Mine is as close as you can get.

I get that, but I also know former petrolheads who love their EVs, it's a personal choice.

 

[The_Lizards_Jumpers]

Very timely, and apologies for the link to the Mail, who of course have their own agenda to push.

How power costs have sent the electric vehicle revolution into reverse

Heading to Blackpool to attend an awards ceremony, businesswoman Sophie Preston-Hall not only arrived late, but barely had time to get dressed.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Andy_W]

I wouldn't. I'd hire a diesel if I was driving from one end of the country to another. 🫡
Done it before a couple of times and will more than likely do it again even with my new car. Have never wanted to put the miles on my own when it's fairly cheap considering to hire someone elses car and put in the miles on that without having to worry about breakdowns (replacement car sent), tax, insurance etc.

I'd go on the train, if I could, and there weren't a million changes, obv not cheap mind, unless booking in advance, and strikes now too though.

 

[Andy_W]

The only almost argument against EV's which I can semi-understand, to a degree and in isolation, is for journeys which max out or nearly max out the range (say 200-250 miles), with no destination charging, and when coming back the other way sooner after, as they could incur stops which would not otherwise happen with an ICE. But the ICE still fills up before and after, so there's not much in it, not worth worrying about for most.

Much longer journeys need a few stops anyway, ICE or EV, so there's not much in that either.

Every other journey/ miles (which is probably >95% for most) the EV is better, as you're never even thinking about charging, petrol stations or the first-world problem of a cold car/ de-icing etc.

Normally, when I'm making a purchase, I'm thinking about the 95%, not the half our difference in the 5%, but maybe that's just me.

 

[Andy_W]

Very timely, and apologies for the link to the Mail, who of course have their own agenda to push.

How power costs have sent the electric vehicle revolution into reverse

Heading to Blackpool to attend an awards ceremony, businesswoman Sophie Preston-Hall not only arrived late, but barely had time to get dressed.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Yeah, electric prices have shot up, no doubt about that, but hopefully, this is a kick in the **** to not rely on morons for oil and gas, like we do now. This all came at a bad time too, after a lull in demand with covid, and then a recovery demanding more energy, the perfect storm.

Wind and Solar are still churning out extremely cheap energy, but the problem is the high oil and gas price means we also pay way over the top for current wind and solar, as they get paid a market price, not what we should be paying them. It's a messed up system, but more wind/ solar will force that price down.

When electric was at its usual prices, EV fuel was far cheaper, but now it's similar I expect.

Electric will come back down though, probably not much longer left in this war and the covid recovery will flatten out, and then as we get more and more wind/ solar (which is the cheapest form of energy) the price should go even lower than it was before all of the war/ covid etc (and petrol/ diesel will still keep going up).

This war isn't helping EV's though, but the future/ renewables will.