The form slump

As I say only wilder knows the truth but something clearly wasn’t right snd hadn’t been for some time.

But we’ve moved on now.
 
You clearly don’t think there wasn’t an issue but many of us including myself did. It was a toxic camp look at how he treated sim players and completely ignored others including the reserves.

As I say only wilder really knows.
 
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Jedi boro said:
You clearly don’t think there wasn’t an issue but many of us including myself did. It was a toxic camp look at how he treated sim players and completely ignored others including the reserves.

As I say only wilder really knows.
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The issue wasn’t Burnley, it was something else imo
 
GazC_MFC said:
I also used that to demonstrate that people can use stats to back up their point.

Personally I don’t think wilder and Scott saw eye to eye cos wilder was arrogant pr1ck
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It was something

I think it was telling when drury was talking about how wilder match interviews changed as well as he said he noticed that he became more confrontational in his approach and aggressive.

You could tell something wasn’t right the whole expectation level thing was a big shock to me for any manager to say that about their own club was incredible. Esp one finished 7th the following year.

Odd very very odd
 
I trusted Wilder, but he proved to be an immovable object and a mardy bum, if he was in a corner and didnt get what he wanted.
Him and Warnock are two cheeks of the same back-side: arrogant, set in their ways and not open to changing their approach.
But they are both history.
This squad IS average, but Michael Carrick has already improved it by taking a "flexible" managerial approach and talking to individual players. Its in its infancy - and it appears to be working.
Roll on Saturday (y)
 
Cardiffdaffs said:
Agreed. This Burnley “theory” I thought had been debunked with some notable poor performances before Dyche lost his job at Turf Moor. Games at Barnsley and Bristol City. Home to Hull.
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The Burnley thing gained a lot about of traction through Simon Jordan too, when it transpired in the end he was on a scouting mission
 
Maybe the Burnley saga was a symptom and not the cause. Things may have been rocky behind the scenes and made Wilders eye begin to wander, but unwilling to just walk and lose out on a pay out.
 
Four weeks isn't enough really, but more than 12 weeks, either side, isn't really form, is it?

I pivoted around the 1st of April and looked at 6 leagues and then 12 leagues games either side (six being more indicative of form looking at what the bookies seem to publish) and that shows a loss of form.

6 weeks either side of 01/04/22, from 1.67 to 1.17 points per game
12 weeks either side of 01/04/22, from 1.42 to 1.08 points per game

I think 6 games indicates form, rather than 12 to be honest. And you could argue for moving the pivot date forward a week?
6 weeks either side of 08/04/22 1.5 to 1.33 points per game (marginal)

Being 100% honest the only thing I have definitively proven is that I'm easily distracted... oh, and a loss of form if his agent was tapped up 2 weeks earlier (and maybe he wasn't...)

I think I'm late for work...
 
I think Wilder was an authoritarian figure, no flexibility, his way or no way, I am hoping the Carrick and Woodgate partnership will be more inclusive with the players bringing a togetherness and shared goals and objectives.
 
GazC_MFC said:
The Burnley thing gained a lot about of traction through Simon Jordan too, when it transpired in the end he was on a scouting mission
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It was implied to me that once the rumour started an ex-Middlesbrough manager told a certain chairman and radio presenter that he's close to that of course it was true Wilder was courting the move he'd even been the guest of the Director's at a Burnley game....I mean it's obvious if you're wanting another club's manager you put him on public display, it makes no sense to try and keep it private and not allow the world to know your intentions before you make an approach.

I repeat what I was told at the time and have been told since Burnley did not make any approach for any manager that they would need to pay compensation for.

As an aside why did our form drop off around the same time in 2021 was that down to unrest behind the scenes ? Why did our form dive off a cliff under Pulis around the same time in 2019 ? Teams come in and out of form for a variety of reasons and sometimes it's just a reversal of fine margins that turn a winning streak into a losing run.
 
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parmoboy said:
I think it was a mix of several things.

- Wilder courting the Burnley job
- Players being thrown under the bus by Wilder and possibly wanting him out
- Poor recruitment last summer

I actually liked Wilder's rigidity when it came to the formation and the way he wanted the team to play - I loved Karanka for the same thing. I think the issue was, for Wilderball to work you simply had to have had the right type of player playing in each role.

I know some fans have criticised Wilder for the obsession he had with the club signing a left-footed CB, but the over-lapping centre halves were supposed to be key elements in our attacking play. He wanted a left-footed CB - he got Matt Clarke.

Replacing Tav with Mowatt was also a massive boo-boo, although I accept that Wilder was all for this signing. Actually signing an energetic box-to-box midfielder would have made a hell of a difference though.

I'm not saying all of this to defend Wilder, as I think poor recruitment was just one of several factors which contributed to Wilder's demise.
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I'd agree with all that, especially regarding formation. You need a bit of flexibility, but you want your manager to have a philosophy, and the recruitment team to support it. I hope this finally happens under Carrick.
 
bungydinsdale said:
yeah, and I know this will be controversial for some, but as so-called professionals our players should have the professionalism to still do their best regardless of who is in charge and what they think the future may hold. I know if I wasn't acting professionally in my job I'd probably get the sack, but players seem to be able to down tools whenever they want cos they don't like this that or t'other .
The way to do it if unhappy is to continue being professional, putting in everything you've got and taking it up with the leaders of the club in private, or through the player's union, rather than non-performance on the pitch to get the manager sacked.
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I'm not suggesting the players "downed tools" in a deliberate, conscious way to try and get Wilder sacked. I'd guess all the players would say they were trying their best throughout. I just think maybe what a persons best efforts look like can probably fluctuate up and down a bit (if they're getting unusual or contradictory instructions, if their manager is always raging, if they're worried about being singled out for criticism, if they're unsure whether they're part of the team or about to be sold...) and in professional football the margins are probably so tight that a little downturn can hammer your results.

The second goal Cardiff scored against us, Howson has the ball about 10 yards outside our box, 4 Cardiff players around him. He tries to play out, gets tackled and we concede. Downed tools? Or is he trying his best to follow Wilders instructions and aware that Wilders slated players like Fry for just clearing the ball when we're under pressure?

The way Uche and Akpom were treated in the summer was disrespectful. I didn't like the club doing that one bit. And there was a point when the gazette was saying Akpom and Watmore were for sale - knowing the way the gazette usually operate I'd guess that came from the club. I know others will blame Gibson or Bausor or Scott but to me it seemed like the way the club publically treated the players got sh*ttier the longer Wilder was here.

Especially in comparison to Warnock who's style was always more to build them all up as the best player in the league for their position, always mentioning insisting the players give each other rounds of applause in the dressing room etc. Someones said it taking the p*ss in another thread but there was that time Warnock said Akpom was his #1 transfer target. In reality he probably wasn't but isn't that a much better thing to say publically than to just write new signings off as development/not good enough?
 
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Hap said:
I think it's true. I don't know that it is, but am inclined to believe it, in context with everything else.

I liked Wilder and really wanted it to work btw.
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Mark Drury confirmed it as fact when Wilder was sacked. Said Wilder just didn't want to tell an outright lie.
 
American_Mary said:
It was implied to me that once the rumour started an ex-Middlesbrough manager told a certain chairman and radio presenter that he's close to that of course it was true Wilder was courting the move he'd even been the guest of the Director's at a Burnley game....I mean it's obvious if you're wanting another club's manager you put him on public display, it makes no sense to try and keep it private and not allow the world to know your intentions before you make an approach.

I repeat what I was told at the time and have been told since Burnley did not make any approach for any manager that they would need to pay compensation for.

As an aside why did our form drop off around the same time in 2021 was that down to unrest behind the scenes ? Why did our form dive off a cliff under Pulis around the same time in 2019 ? Teams come in and out of form for a variety of reasons and sometimes it's just a reversal of fine margins that turn a winning streak into a losing run.
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I get all that AM and I respect you as a poster and I don’t doubt what your saying

but there’s one thing that conflicts with that and that is wilders reaction himself.

How he reacted to the speculation was at best awkward and at worst down right odd and disrespectful.
 
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