The Plan B poll

The_Tiler

Well-known member
64% don't think the new guidance measures are needed.

But 74.6% will follow it anyway.

The government are slowly adding new measures, like the vaccine passport at football grounds, and people are accepting it. If they introduced a massive clamp down in one go, people would rebel. Chip away, slowly, and we will all accept it.

How long before mandatory vaccines, fines, segregation and worse, come into play.

Us tin foil hats have said this from the beginning but were laughed at.

Its coming.
 
Not really much to follow is there? Masks indoors and testing before attending a large event. Expect quite a few were already doing it anyway
 
Very clever these Tories, not only did they manage to appear reluctant to bring in these new measures they also managed to manipulate the general public into begging for them. Right so we’ve now got vaccine passports, which btw have made no difference to cases in Scotland and Wales, which conspiracy theory is next?? I’m going with mandatory vaccines swiftly followed by a booster every 6 months and if you don’t take it you’ll be considered unvaccinated and therefore unable to take part in normal life.
 
Very clever these Tories, not only did they manage to appear reluctant to bring in these new measures they also managed to manipulate the general public into begging for them. Right so we’ve now got vaccine passports, which btw have made no difference to cases in Scotland and Wales, which conspiracy theory is next?? I’m going with mandatory vaccines swiftly followed by a booster every 6 months and if you don’t take it you’ll be considered unvaccinated and therefore unable to take part in normal life.
As long as the vaccine passport continues to accept a test what’s the problem? Wouldn’t agree if this wasn’t included but with these current rules it doesn’t exclude anyone
 
That’s a fair point JM but seeing as most people will have travelled to the match on public transport and mixed with unvaccinated people in pubs beforehand does it not make the whole scenario ridiculous??
 
64% don't think the new guidance measures are needed.

But 74.6% will follow it anyway.

The government are slowly adding new measures, like the vaccine passport at football grounds, and people are accepting it. If they introduced a massive clamp down in one go, people would rebel. Chip away, slowly, and we will all accept it.

How long before mandatory vaccines, fines, segregation and worse, come into play.

Us tin foil hats have said this from the beginning but were laughed at.

Its coming.
Fine
 
That’s a fair point JM but seeing as most people will have travelled to the match on public transport and mixed with unvaccinated people in pubs beforehand does it not make the whole scenario ridiculous??
Would the people going to the match, not be the same as those in the pubs and on public transport. i.e. if they're limiting infection of people going to the game it would limit infection of people doing things before the game, i.e. it's the same people?

If people are vaccinated, then they're vaccinated wherever they are. If people take a test on the morning then they're not likely to go to the pub or game hopefully.

Obviously there could be mixing of the vaccinated and those who have just had a negative test on the morning, with the general public in pubs etc, but nobody will be catching it and passing it on to others within a few hours.

The idea is limiting infected people going to the pubs, and then the game where they would be in a concourse and sat with thousands of others.
 
It’s widely accepted that vaccine doesn’t stop infection and doesn’t stop transmissions, but does reduce the effects,yeah?
Therefore, why is it only the unvaccinated have to have proof of a negative test in the last 24 hours?
Personally, I’d rather be in the company of unvaccinated as if they were infected they’d know more about it than vaccinated and responsibly self isolate. Vaccinated are probably the “super spreaders”😊
 
How many politicians and scientists have told us that we need to live with this virus? And yet they are doing the exact opposite by creating a society with 'papers please', QR codes, further restrictions. I acknowledge that people want to save lives, but ultimately you cannot save everyone and think of the implications this will have on society as a whole. There are plenty of vaccines, antiviral treatments, no shortages in ventilators/medical equipment like last year. Honestly, if I told you over a year ago the mass majority of the population are vaccinated, everything returned to normal over the summer but we still moved to a so called 'Plan B' over a variant that has zero evidence of evading vaccines to an extent it causes further illness and death, you would never have believed it.

You can have a fully vaccinated population that still gets infected with Covid, transmit it and new variants emerge. That's how it works. Without sounding churlish, stop living a life acting like a biological hazard, and acting as if people who are unvaccinated around you are Covid carriers. They might have had Covid previously and developed their own natural antibodies, or they might even want to test themselves. SO WHAT?! Just let people make their choices and let them live with the consequences. The stigmatisation of one side calling others selfish, tin foil monomaniac antivaxxers and the other branding those who comply as sheep is extremely frustrating. Let people make their own decisions, show some deference and move on. What is the alternative? Mandatory vaccines? Okay so are we going to have Covid SWAT teams go to people's houses and force the jab on them? No? Okay, so whisk them off to Covid centres against their will and give them the jab? Mitchell, don't be silly. Ah so we just fine people every single month? Make them lose their jobs, houses, plunge them into poverty? deprive them of an education? Bar them from entering shops to buy food? Freeze their bank accounts? You might think this is far fetched, but there was a time the very idea of vaccine passports were too. Even some board members on here were shocked when I told them about green and red QR codes in China, just for taking public transport and buying train tickets, and yet here we are.

We need to treat this virus like we do with the flu. BuT YoU CaN'T COmPAre IT tO ThE Flu!!!! Despite the fact that mRNA vaccines are used for the flu and Covid. Are we going to seriously spend the rest of our lives hinging on what we can and cannot do based on whether we have had our boosters, variants that emerge or long term mask wearing? Stop living in fear. If you genuinely want a return to normal, and I mean the real normal, then oppose the nefarious segregation of society and threats of draconian measures.
 
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It’s widely accepted that vaccine doesn’t stop infection and doesn’t stop transmissions, but does reduce the effects,yeah?
Therefore, why is it only the unvaccinated have to have proof of a negative test in the last 24 hours?
Personally, I’d rather be in the company of unvaccinated as if they were infected they’d know more about it than vaccinated and responsibly self isolate. Vaccinated are probably the “super spreaders”😊
Good point to be fair
 
It’s widely accepted that vaccine doesn’t stop infection and doesn’t stop transmissions, but does reduce the effects,yeah?
Therefore, why is it only the unvaccinated have to have proof of a negative test in the last 24 hours?
Personally, I’d rather be in the company of unvaccinated as if they were infected they’d know more about it than vaccinated and responsibly self isolate. Vaccinated are probably the “super spreaders”😊
Stopping all infection is practically impossible, so that point is moot. The key thing are reductions, and reductions are not binary, and nor do they need to be to have a massive effect.

Pretty much all the experts and all the studies (done by experts, and checked by experts) are saying vaccines reduce transmission, but more importantly they massively reduce the number needing hospital beds. Of course there will be some cranks who disagree, but these have been proven wrong time and time again, it's not like they're going to become messiah's now, most of them have been struck off or were not even qualified in the first place.

3 jabs (or two jabs + infection) pretty much covers Omicron as much as two jabs covered Delta, for infection, based on same timeframes. If you don't get infected, it's hard to transmit it.

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2 jabs 5 months ago won't cover it as well, but still far better than none, or one previous infection months ago, again this is already proven.

Anyway, the point above is not even the major point, because as this transmits so well, there is an argument that there's little point even trying to fight it and that it will get to everyone anyway (which it probably will), but this is covered by the point below.

The main point now is that as this thing spreads so fast (they still don't know how much faster yet), the NHS simply won't cope with the volume of unvaccinated people (5m adults in this category) with a much larger percentage for overwhelming healthcare, which then effects everyone. The unvaccinated are 8:1 more likely to need healthcare, based on comparative risk profiles. Why should 90% of adults suffer and get a lesser standard of healthcare because 10% won't (for wonky reasons)?

Risk isn't binary, it's a sliding scale. Risk reduction measures don't need to be binary, to have a big effect. Risk multiples and covid increases are often exponential, moderate reductions x moderate reductions x moderate reductions = massive differences compared to no reductions.

The sustained covid load on healthcare is driving down response to other consultations, surgeries, A&E, GP's etc at a time when we really need those going in the other direction.

Big assumption expecting the unvaccinated to be responsible, and for all of them to know they have it, most are transmissible before they even get symptoms, that's if they do get symptoms.

They're not really asking a lot here are they? Vaccines are a massive risk benefit to the individual and to healthcare, and taking a test takes about 10 minutes and is free. These small measures could stop a doubling in people needing healthcare, or at least spread the load out, so it is all not needed at the same time.

Most countries introduced vaccine passports months ago (with a lot tighter restrictions), even France and Sweden. Yes, there was some initial backlash, but people have calmed down now. The week after the announcement 5m of the French had started their jabs, and they've now got a higher percentage of partially vaccinated than us. Our "restrictions" on the unjabbed are minimal compared to most other countries, and we've next to no restrictions on the vaccinated.
 
Because of the choice to test rather than vaccinate I don't think there are any restrictions. I have no problem with this as it does not exclude it just inconveniences.

I would have a big issue with vaccine passports without the option of a negative test.
 
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