* The Unofficial "Official" Boro v Stoke Match-Day Thread *

the_holgate_roof said:
For me this sums it up, people focussing on the defence when that last goal should have been academic, we need the final piece of the jigsaw, that golden nugget up front, we are just not clinical enough up front, too many chances not finished off.
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You're way off. As @Diego points out we're currently joint top scorers but have conceded the most goals. It's plain to see where the problem lies, we can't keep the ball out of our net.
In reality your plan is to out score the opposition regardless of how many they stick past us which has worked for no team ever. The defending has to be sorted out whatever that requires.
 
chickenrunner said:
You're way off. As @Diego points out we're currently joint top scorers but have conceded the most goals. It's plain to see where the problem lies, we can't keep the ball out of our net.
In reality your plan is to out score the opposition regardless of how many they stick past us which has worked for no team ever. The defending has to be sorted out whatever that requires.
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The answer is fairly simple to me - get Fry and McNair in there. Our two best defenders by far. It really isn’t necessary for every single player at the back to be able to run thirty yards with the ball out of defence and play wonder passes. We have two weapons on either side now in Jones and Giles, there’s really no need for having three centre backs who play like attackers
 
Jr. SkinnyLegs said:
We are in a sticky situation atm with trying to find a balance in the current formation. Our wingbacks are pushed so far up the pitch even when we play it out from the back and it feels like every turnover of the ball is going to expose our centre backs. Whether he was fouled or not, you could see that in the first goal tonight. IMO we need a defensive midfielder who can break up attacks and to protect the back 3. I can't see how any of our centre backs can deal with being exposed the way they are currently are. I don't think there are many centre backs in the championship who could deal with it really.
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👆 Exactly
 
Think we are all ***ed off with the result tonight but… some of that football tonight was great to watch. That quick passing between about 4 / 5 players on the right touch line in the second half was brilliant. Considering it is not September yet, hopefully we have players coming and keeping clean sheets are one of the easier things to sort out, then we should all be excited. (y)
 
sambaDTR said:
Think we are all ***ed off with the result tonight but… some of that football tonight was great to watch. That quick passing between about 4 / 5 players on the right touch line in the second half was brilliant. Considering it is not September yet, hopefully we have players coming and keeping clean sheets are one of the easier things to sort out, then we should all be excited. (y)
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I agree - it’s just a shame the squad wasn’t all in place before a ball was kicked, then would quite possibly be smashing teams by now
 
The oddest thing about last nights game wasn't the way we snatched a draw from the Jaws of victory. It was how odd we all thought the team selection was. No one questioned the back line, it was getting goals folks were concerned about.

I don't know if it was luck or judgement on wilders part but the team he put out was terriffic. McGree was the noticeable improver in that team. He wasn't the best player on the pitch but it was a mini transformation.

We haven't quite got the balance right yet and the defence can be caught out as was the case with the first, albeit illeagal first goal.

The second goal was just poor defending.

One final note, we are going to have some fun with this keeper.
 
Funky_Chicken said:
I agree - it’s just a shame the squad wasn’t all in place before a ball was kicked, then would quite possibly be smashing teams by now
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Absolutely(y)

There can be little doubt new signings are heading in the door - but like many have posted and Wilder himself has said - it would have been ideal if players were here and the window closed before the season started. Unfortunately, the football authorities are a bunch of suits with carrots up their arzes and couldnt manage a change in the rules if they met in a phone box.

We arent just showing "signs" of the team clicking, we are doing it 99% of the time. Just those few pieces left of the jigsaw and "Get ready! We`re gonna give it a go" [Wilder].

Before we get written off by the glass "half - empty" repeat-moaners [remoaners?] - We are 4 games in to a 46 game season + FA Cup [we did quite well last season I understand?].

When Chris Wilder arrived after 17 games under the previous incumbent, we were in 14th place, averaged a point a game and had won 6 games!!!!

After that - with a rag, tag and bobtail of a "squad" - even with two dud loanees up front - we managed 7th. When we beat Trees at the City Ground in September, they were bottom with 1 point! If I remember right -they are now in the Premier League? Anything is possible in this league.
1660806460929.png

So lets not get too emotional [I`m definitely amongst those at times] - and get behind the Club, who are being steered through probably the most comprehensive rebuild since Southgate`s departure. For now, we are understandably frustrated, but it wont be long before we are flying.(y)

That feels better!

UTMB!
 
Laughing said:
The oddest thing about last nights game wasn't the way we snatched a draw from the Jaws of victory. It was how odd we all thought the team selection was. No one questioned the back line, it was getting goals folks were concerned about.

I don't know if it was luck or judgement on wilders part but the team he put out was terriffic. McGree was the noticeable improver in that team. He wasn't the best player on the pitch but it was a mini transformation.

We haven't quite got the balance right yet and the defence can be caught out as was the case with the first, albeit illeagal first goal.

The second goal was just poor defending.

One final note, we are going to have some fun with this keeper.
Click to expand...

I certainly wasn't expecting the team selection but when I saw Chuba out didn't think it was that odd. But I thought we were aiming to keep the ball and keep it tight, instead, we were using it for mass pressure, which was great I thought. Can't remember ever seeing us playing that well and moving the ball around so fluidly, for a very long time.

The defence just needs to learn what to do with this system, but they didn't do much wrong last night at all, there were far more positives, not lumping the ball up and giving the ball away, meant we had much more of the ball.

Their first goal was a foul, and we wouldn't have expected to lose possession there, without getting a foul, so chalk that one off. As for the second, it was a great ball in behind the defenders and a good run, can't expect to defend that every time. Teams will always get one or two chances at home and they put theirs away, they were extremely fortunate.

If we'd won that 4-1 nobody would have been surprised after watching their game (other than cynics), most of their fans on Twitter think they got off extremely lightly.

I think before this game we had the highest xG of any team in the division and were around mid-table for xGa, so even before last night we're not really getting anything near what we deserve, and that's with the bad halfs, but last night amplified it.

Steffen's saved most of what I'd expect him to, and not really had any howlers that I can think of, off the top of my head, which has cost goals. But we're gaining so much by him not needlessly belting the ball to the middle of nowhere. His passing has started a lot of our moves and really helps our possession stats, as we're not giving them back free ball. He has played some long balls at the right times and nearly created some goals on his own, which is some doing. Might be a bit hairy to watch, but I think we'll gain a hell of a lot more than we lose with this guy.

Lots to be positive about I think, and we're going to get better and better, eventually, we'll start getting what we deserve.
 
Andy_W said:
I certainly wasn't expecting the team selection but when I saw Chuba out didn't think it was that odd. But I thought we were aiming to keep the ball and keep it tight, instead, we were using it for mass pressure, which was great I thought. Can't remember ever seeing us playing that well and moving the ball around so fluidly, for a very long time.

The defence just needs to learn what to do with this system, but they didn't do much wrong last night at all, there were far more positives, not lumping the ball up and giving the ball away, meant we had much more of the ball.

Their first goal was a foul, and we wouldn't have expected to lose possession there, without getting a foul, so chalk that one off. As for the second, it was a great ball in behind the defenders and a good run, can't expect to defend that every time. Teams will always get one or two chances at home and they put theirs away, they were extremely fortunate.

If we'd won that 4-1 nobody would have been surprised after watching their game (other than cynics), most of their fans on Twitter think they got off extremely lightly.

I think before this game we had the highest xG of any team in the division and were around mid-table for xGa, so even before last night we're not really getting anything near what we deserve, and that's with the bad halfs, but last night amplified it.

Steffen's saved most of what I'd expect him to, and not really had any howlers that I can think of, off the top of my head, which has cost goals. But we're gaining so much by him not needlessly belting the ball to the middle of nowhere. His passing has started a lot of our moves and really helps our possession stats, as we're not giving them back free ball. He has played some long balls at the right times and nearly created some goals on his own, which is some doing. Might be a bit hairy to watch, but I think we'll gain a hell of a lot more than we lose with this guy.

Lots to be positive about I think, and we're going to get better and better, eventually, we'll start getting what we deserve.
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Hi Andy.
Whats "xG"?
I honestly have no idea:unsure:
 
Andy_W said:
I certainly wasn't expecting the team selection but when I saw Chuba out didn't think it was that odd. But I thought we were aiming to keep the ball and keep it tight, instead, we were using it for mass pressure, which was great I thought. Can't remember ever seeing us playing that well and moving the ball around so fluidly, for a very long time.

The defence just needs to learn what to do with this system, but they didn't do much wrong last night at all, there were far more positives, not lumping the ball up and giving the ball away, meant we had much more of the ball.

Their first goal was a foul, and we wouldn't have expected to lose possession there, without getting a foul, so chalk that one off. As for the second, it was a great ball in behind the defenders and a good run, can't expect to defend that every time. Teams will always get one or two chances at home and they put theirs away, they were extremely fortunate.

If we'd won that 4-1 nobody would have been surprised after watching their game (other than cynics), most of their fans on Twitter think they got off extremely lightly.

I think before this game we had the highest xG of any team in the division and were around mid-table for xGa, so even before last night we're not really getting anything near what we deserve, and that's with the bad halfs, but last night amplified it.

Steffen's saved most of what I'd expect him to, and not really had any howlers that I can think of, off the top of my head, which has cost goals. But we're gaining so much by him not needlessly belting the ball to the middle of nowhere. His passing has started a lot of our moves and really helps our possession stats, as we're not giving them back free ball. He has played some long balls at the right times and nearly created some goals on his own, which is some doing. Might be a bit hairy to watch, but I think we'll gain a hell of a lot more than we lose with this guy.

Lots to be positive about I think, and we're going to get better and better, eventually, we'll start getting what we deserve.
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I agree with most of that. The first goal we were too far forward and had over committed when Jones turned back. We didn't expect him to lose the ball which he wouldn't have without the foul. However he does concede possession needlessly sometimes and he needs to cut that out when we are ahead of the ball.

The keeper made a couple of errors. Pushing the ball back into the 6 yard box was the noticeable one. He was never under pressure and still dropped a clanger. The plus from him is his distribution. It is good even for an outfield player. He'll get more assists this year than any of the defenders.

Overall I can see why wilder picks him but man he makes a lot of mistakes for a professional.

Wilder hasn't ever put a team out to"keep it tight" he clearly wasn't doing that as the game proved. Putting McGree up front was a masterstroke no one expected. His movement caused all sorts of problems, the defenders didn't know whether to go with him when dropped deeper or leave him to the midfield. It created spaces for others.
Best game I have seen this season from any team.
 
Laughing said:
I agree with most of that. The first goal we were too far forward and had over committed when Jones turned back. We didn't expect him to lose the ball which he wouldn't have without the foul. However he does concede possession needlessly sometimes and he needs to cut that out when we are ahead of the ball.

The keeper made a couple of errors. Pushing the ball back into the 6 yard box was the noticeable one. He was never under pressure and still dropped a clanger. The plus from him is his distribution. It is good even for an outfield player. He'll get more assists this year than any of the defenders.

Overall I can see why wilder picks him but man he makes a lot of mistakes for a professional.

Wilder hasn't ever put a team out to"keep it tight" he clearly wasn't doing that as the game proved. Putting McGree up front was a masterstroke no one expected. His movement caused all sorts of problems, the defenders didn't know whether to go with him when dropped deeper or leave him to the midfield. It created spaces for others.
Best game I have seen this season from any team.
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I'm not sure we over-committed, you have to get up high to keep the ball like we did the first half, and have that sort of pressure, you don't get that without stepping up, unless you're the old Barcelona from 10 years ago. It's a nightmare when you lose the ball when you don't expect to, especially for modern formations where players have dual roles. You gain far more with the ball and high lines/ presses, but it can really cost you if you lose it at a time when you shouldn't, and it's hard to watch.

Well, I meant tighter, as in with the intention of dominating midfield and not chocking away 3 goals in 30 minutes, like the away game before.
 
r00fie1 said:
Absolutely(y)

There can be little doubt new signings are heading in the door - but like many have posted and Wilder himself has said - it would have been ideal if players were here and the window closed before the season started. Unfortunately, the football authorities are a bunch of suits with carrots up their arzes and couldnt manage a change in the rules if they met in a phone box.

We arent just showing "signs" of the team clicking, we are doing it 99% of the time. Just those few pieces left of the jigsaw and "Get ready! We`re gonna give it a go" [Wilder].

Before we get written off by the glass "half - empty" repeat-moaners [remoaners?] - We are 4 games in to a 46 game season + FA Cup [we did quite well last season I understand?].

When Chris Wilder arrived after 17 games under the previous incumbent, we were in 14th place, averaged a point a game and had won 6 games!!!!

After that - with a rag, tag and bobtail of a "squad" - even with two dud loanees up front - we managed 7th. When we beat Trees at the City Ground in September, they were bottom with 1 point! If I remember right -they are now in the Premier League? Anything is possible in this league.
View attachment 43045

So lets not get too emotional [I`m definitely amongst those at times] - and get behind the Club, who are being steered through probably the most comprehensive rebuild since Southgate`s departure. For now, we are understandably frustrated, but it wont be long before we are flying.(y)

That feels better!

UTMB!
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Good point - we spent half a season with two strikers who scored about five goals between them 😵‍💫
 
r00fie1 said:
Hi Andy.
Whats "xG"?
I honestly have no idea:unsure:
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Like @Laughing says, it's Expected goals, and Expected goals against.

It's a measure of how many goals you would be expected to score from the sum of all the chances you have, it's quite accurate, a lot more accurate than shots/ shots on target. xGa is the measure of how many you should be expecting to concede from the chances you give away.

Example/ team 1:
A penalty might have 0.8 xG, a 6-yard tap in opportunity would have 0.99 xG, and you might have 3 shots from 30 yards at 0.01 xG. Total sum is ~1.8, so over 10 games with those same chances, a typical player/ team should get 18 goals.

Example/ team 2:
Another team might have 20 shots from 25 yards out, with an xG of 0.02, the total of that is like 0.4 xG, so in 10 games you're only going to get goals doing that.

If you just look at "shots", or shots on target stats, then you would think Team 2 were better, as they had 10 shots, and Team 1 worse as they only had 5, but in reality Team 1's chances were worth over 4x Team 2, so should really win every time, if they put the chances away/ get what they deserve.

xG of last night:

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We've had a higher xG than the opposition in every game we've had this year, the closest was WBA, but we were still head on that by 0.2.
 
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Andy_W said:
I'm not sure we over-committed, you have to get up high to keep the ball like we did the first half, and have that sort of pressure, you don't get that without stepping up, unless you're the old Barcelona from 10 years ago. It's a nightmare when you lose the ball when you don't expect to, especially for modern formations where players have dual roles. You gain far more with the ball and high lines/ presses, but it can really cost you if you lose it at a time when you shouldn't, and it's hard to watch.

Well, I meant tighter, as in with the intention of dominating midfield and not chocking away 3 goals in 30 minutes, like the away game before.
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I think we overcommit all the time Andy. It's a wilder tactic so it's done knowingly. In earlier games we lost the ball too cheaply and conceded goals. Last night we didn't loose the ball cheaply, foul ignored. It's why we dominated the game.

I would have to watch the first goal back again, but I suspect we had too many players ahead of the ball, and when Jones turned back, players should, probably have dropped a little deeper in the event he did loose the ball.


It is what makes us great to watch so you pays your money and takes your pick.

On the subject, a slightly different one, of Wilder not bringing defensive players on to see the game out. I thought we would go on and get another goal, however with 3 or 4 minutes to go, I would have made some substitutions just to slow the game down. We had one more substitution window we could have made use of.
 
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