Those druggie cyclists.....

MolteniArcore said:
In cycling I think if those teams were doping those specific riders and those riders were winning everything there would be riders calling it out. The days of omertà have gone in the peloton I think (and hope).
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I dont. I dont they will ever go away.

The sport has involved cheating since the very first TDF and will probably always have an element if it. It just doesn't sit right with me that you have 3 riders so far ahead of everyone else. Obviously they're talented, but so are many riders, what is it that's giving them the edge time and again?

Obviously it's not like Froome where Sky managed to turn a donkey into Red Rum, but people are obviously going to be suspicious when you have 3 riders dominating the sport like they are at the moment.
 
The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
Obviously it's not like Froome where Sky managed to turn a donkey into Red Rum, but people are obviously going to be suspicious when you have 3 riders dominating the sport like they are at the moment.
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Well Froome did have an undiagnosed medical condition that was affecting his performance but let's park that...

Mathieu van der Poel isn't dominating btw...

Wout has only won the E3...

Quick Step have dominated recently... Patrick Lefevere would and is livid that they aren't winning anything now... He'd be shouting from the rooftops if he thought a doped up Pog was stopping his riders winning.

I personally think that you have a few exceptional riders who have every resource thrown at them for a few targeted races. Couple that with strong team mates and I think that is the reason. There isn't any murmuring from journos like there was with Armstrong.

I'd be more concerned in sports with little history of doping and no big names popped. Football fits this quite nicely.
 
MolteniArcore said:
Well Froome did have an undiagnosed medical condition that was affecting his performance but let's park that...

Mathieu van der Poel isn't dominating btw...

Wout has only won the E3...

Quick Step have dominated recently... Patrick Lefevere would and is livid that they aren't winning anything now... He'd be shouting from the rooftops if he thought a doped up Pog was stopping his riders winning.

I personally think that you have a few exceptional riders who have every resource thrown at them for a few targeted races. Couple that with strong team mates and I think that is the reason. There isn't any murmuring from journos like there was with Armstrong.

I'd be more concerned in sports with little history of doping and no big names popped. Football fits this quite nicely.
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You've picked only this season, which is a month old.

The fact is that doping has always been part of the sport I love, and over the years we've had big personalities dominate the sport for a time, from Anquetil through Merckx to Armstrong taking in people like Wiggins, Froome, Contador, Hinault etc and all of whom are proven or rumoured dopers (with the possible exception of LeMond).

Now you have 3 riders who appear so far in front of everyone else (with the possible exception of Pidcock who rides for a questionable team himself) and we're expected to believe they're clean and it's just a coincidence.

Lefevere is a gobshite and would only be shouting from the rooftops if he was whiter than white, which I'm sure he isn't.

100% agree on your last point re football, but it doesn't mean that cycling has suddenly, after over 100 years of cheating, suddenly become a clean sport. To me cheating in cycling is just part of the fabric of the sport I fell in love with as a 11 year old in 1988 and I don't think it'll ever go away.
 
The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
You've picked only this season, which is a month old.

The fact is that doping has always been part of the sport I love, and over the years we've had big personalities dominate the sport for a time, from Anquetil through Merckx to Armstrong taking in people like Wiggins, Froome, Contador, Hinault etc and all of whom are proven or rumoured dopers (with the possible exception of LeMond).

Now you have 3 riders who appear so far in front of everyone else (with the possible exception of Pidcock who rides for a questionable team himself) and we're expected to believe they're clean and it's just a coincidence.

Lefevere is a gobshite and would only be shouting from the rooftops if he was whiter than white, which I'm sure he isn't.

100% agree on your last point re football, but it doesn't mean that cycling has suddenly, after over 100 years of cheating, suddenly become a clean sport. To me cheating in cycling is just part of the fabric of the sport I fell in love with as a 11 year old in 1988 and I don't think it'll ever go away.
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I get what you are saying, I just don't think it is like the days of old. I look at the likes of Thomas, Pidcock, Rowe, Cavendish and I really don't think they would dope. Maybe I am naive but that is the British riders, there must be many european riders much the same.
 
MolteniArcore said:
I get what you are saying, I just don't think it is like the days of old. I look at the likes of Thomas, Pidcock, Rowe, Cavendish and I really don't think they would dope. Maybe I am naive but that is the British riders, there must be many european riders much the same.
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Of course there's been riders who have refused to dope, Christophe Bassons as an example, but they're normally not popular within the peloton and dont survive long in the sport.

To pick on a couple of riders you listed above, I like Cavendish, but he rides for Vinokourov's team, and has ridden for Team Sky, why do you think he's so clean? Rowe has forged a career at Sky, who are grey at best, so again why the belief in them ?
 
The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
Of course there's been riders who have refused to dope, Christophe Bassons as an example, but they're normally not popular within the peloton and dont survive long in the sport.

To pick on a couple of riders you listed above, I like Cavendish, but he rides for Vinokourov's team, and has ridden for Team Sky, why do you think he's so clean? Rowe has forged a career at Sky, who are grey at best, so again why the belief in them ?
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Gut feeling? Too much to lose? One of them is a Yorkshireman?

I personally don't think Sky were as dodgy as they have been made out to be. I thought that the DCMS report was a bit of a hatchet job and Sky didn't come out of that very well. I don't really think DCMS are fit for purpose - the recent cricket racism report is a prime example of this. I very close friend of mine was involved in the scandal and what was published is nothing like what went on.
 
The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
Of course there's been riders who have refused to dope, Christophe Bassons as an example, but they're normally not popular within the peloton and dont survive long in the sport.

To pick on a couple of riders you listed above, I like Cavendish, but he rides for Vinokourov's team, and has ridden for Team Sky, why do you think he's so clean? Rowe has forged a career at Sky, who are grey at best, so again why the belief in them ?
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Must admit I get where you are coming from.
I'd hate to believe Pidcock and Cav were dopers.
Given 'shady Sky' and Astana - it hasto be possible
MolteniArcore said:
Gut feeling? Too much to lose? One of them is a Yorkshireman?

I personally don't think Sky were as dodgy as they have been made out to be. I thought that the DCMS report was a bit of a hatchet job and Sky didn't come out of that very well. I don't really think DCMS are fit for purpose - the recent cricket racism report is a prime example of this. I very close friend of mine was involved in the scandal and what was published is nothing like what went on.
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Not sure where you are coming from with SKY. The lies and double talk around 'jiffybag gate' alone just stink.
 
MolteniArcore said:
Gut feeling? Too much to lose? One of them is a Yorkshireman?

I personally don't think Sky were as dodgy as they have been made out to be. I thought that the DCMS report was a bit of a hatchet job and Sky didn't come out of that very well. I don't really think DCMS are fit for purpose - the recent cricket racism report is a prime example of this. I very close friend of mine was involved in the scandal and what was published is nothing like what went on.
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Can you elaborate?
 
MolteniArcore said:
I agree. Boxing will be riddled.

I think the worst out of all of the sports will be football though. It is so suspicious that no one has been popped. There is too much money in the game for people not to be taking drugs.

Rugby has it's problems but they are getting caught at least.

Rest assured, the more money involved in a sport the more people will be taking PEDs.
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fifa don't want to invest in it, and often players who have been caught have been allowed to play on by them getting Therapeutic use exemptions like kurt got
 
1finny said:
Not sure where you are coming from with SKY. The lies and double talk around 'jiffybag gate' alone just stink.
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I watched the whole thing and they couldn't understand the logistical side of how the team was structured. For example, they thought it was strange how if a Sporting Director was heading over to a race for the last week that they would take equipment out. About 3 MPs struggled with that. They couldn't grasp that they had different people here, there and everywhere.

The whole 'jiffy gate' thing to me was just DCMS trying to catch someone out so they could look good.
 
atypical_boro said:
Cricket/racism stuff?
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I can't really elaborate on a footy message board as what I know could probably get me and Rob in legal trouble if I posted it.

What I can say is that the way Yorkshire handled it all was disgusting and it has destroyed lives and livelihoods. It has ended the carers of people not even around when the incidents occurred and were not involved.

In time more will come out. Some of it already has done.
 
MolteniArcore said:
I watched the whole thing and they couldn't understand the logistical side of how the team was structured. For example, they thought it was strange how if a Sporting Director was heading over to a race for the last week that they would take equipment out. About 3 MPs struggled with that. They couldn't grasp that they had different people here, there and everywhere.

The whole 'jiffy gate' thing to me was just DCMS trying to catch someone out so they could look good.
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Jiffygate has nothing to do with DCMS
Brailsford lied and lied and is also on record as trying to get the journo to stop the story.
If that’s ok - we are lost
 
MolteniArcore said:
I can't really elaborate on a footy message board as what I know could probably get me and Rob in legal trouble if I posted it.

What I can say is that the way Yorkshire handled it all was disgusting and it has destroyed lives and livelihoods. It has ended the carers of people not even around when the incidents occurred and were not involved.

In time more will come out. Some of it already has done.
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Thanks. I was also gonna ask if Rafiq was or wasn’t treated fairly.
 
RedAsABeetroot said:
Who was the Spanish doctor involved with the blood doping scandal? It always struck me as very convenient that a Spanish court ordered the destruction of all the blood samples.
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Yep remember that & how Spain suddenly went pants at footy.. fortunately the judge said no to releasing the details..

www.theguardian.com

Spanish doping doctor ready to reveal role in major sports

Eufemiano Fuentes will sell sordid details of cheating in high-level football, athletics and the Olympics to highest bidder
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
atypical_boro said:
Thanks. I was also gonna ask if Rafiq was or wasn’t treated fairly.
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From what I know Yorkshire brought the whole thing on themselves with terrible internal procedures, so no, I don't think he was.

They then made scapegoats of people.

But the whole story isn't as simple as the one presented to DCMS. Far much more went on but that isn't in the public domain. The Yorkshire Post seems to be the only paper that has presented anything close to balanced on the sorry saga.

Maybe for the greater good of the sport it was good that it imploded in the way it did? Who knows. The problem I have is it took innocent people down with it and they have been seriously damaged by it all - hence Yorkshire settling out of court with people.
 
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