Villa bid for Morgan Rogers

indeedido said:
A few points if I may.

1. I have been amongst the vocal in criticising Scott. The strength of interest in Rogers shows there is a considerable profit to be made on him. Enough profit to cover the fees paid for the other permanent recruits. Hats off, fair play for the recruitment of Rogers and Carrick's development of him. Major piece of Humble Pie served to self.

2. I posted after the first match of the season that he has obvious talent. I've posted so, consistently since then. However, I am surprised at some of the valuations of him given his current state. Archer was a tremendous goalscorer and great line leader here. He only went for £18m.
He is good and has lots of potential, but there are some posters on here that are shapeshifters.

3. Ramsey was a better player than Rogers while at Boro in my eyes. He's pulled up no trees at Burnley, but he did very well here. He had more impact on matches here than Rogers has IMHO. Nobody knows how each will progress, or how fitness will go.

4. I'd personally far rather keep Rogers than sell, even for a big fee. If Villa will pay big for him now, then that interest will not die. If his sale enabled the signing of a better player, then fine. In Jan window I don't think it will.
If we need to generate funds and sell a player to strengthen, I'd far rather keep Rogers and sell McGree.
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Yes Scott and the recruitment team need some recognition. Ramsey had a bigger impact last season but was playing in a stronger 11. Rogers has more potential and is improving. Haven’t seen Ramsey’s stats when he was with us but his injury record would worry me. He was crocked at Norwich, got crocked here and he has missed some games through injury at Burnley although now he isn’t worth his place in the first XI.
 
Smogonsea said:
I don’t think it really matters what villa offered to start with. Could be a quid. The point is the information is out there and Rogers and his agent will know about it. His head will have been turned and now our hands will be forced to sell a player who wants to go.
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Yeah sorry, I also don’t agree with this. He’s not Mo Salah and hands are never forced, he’s not even an absolute key player for us.

The alternative is he sulks, doesn’t play, then falls off everyone’s radar. He’s also 6 months into a 4 year deal.

I also can see why Villa would be an incredibly attractive move for him, but the proposed fee and their league position very strongly suggests he’s not going in as a nailed on starter. As someone who’s already been lost in the system at a huge club, and looking at how Villa have loaned out then sold off talented youngsters last summer, if I was Morgan I’d think twice about this.
 
I've said from the beginning that Rogers is a player who has massive potential and obvious talent, but despite steady improvement he's still a way from being the finished article.

In some ways it's a bit of an odd one this; they obviously see his potential and are maybe trying to get him in earlier on a cheaper deal, but I can't see him being near their first team at this moment in time.

Give him a year or two and I think he'll be playing at a much higher level though.
 
I'd say no, he isn't worth 20m, yet. He could be within 12 months though if he keeps his creative numbers up and adds a handful more goals.

I think eventually he'll be a CF but it'll probably be another year or two.

I see no point in selling right now, nobody will give us the money that would allow us to reinvest in 2 or 3 new players right now. But he's got 2 league goals so far, and that's the hindering factor to big money. As a creator he's worth far more than the 4m allegedly offered though
 
Diego said:
Rogers ceiling is way ahead of Ramsey in my opinion. As for explosive that’s exactly what Rogers is.

Ramsey being made of quavers doesn’t help either
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totally agree. MR is still growing he is going to be one hell of a player. Gutted if he goes and in the future everyone of you saying take ten mill for him will look daft
 
Thinking about it I don't believe that Rogers would be well advised to try to push for a move. Doesn't mean he won't though. But young players should think carefully before getting a reputation as trouble. As others have said it is unlikely that he would get a start for Villa any time soon. If the buy and loan back deal is to be believed that itself tells you that they just want to bank him. He could get a better deal in the summer if a few PL clubs show interest.
 
outoftown said:
That's life without the promotion up down money to get us started unfortunately, it's hard to do a " Brighton or Brentford " without that parachute money protection to keep all those best assets for the extra season

Every young player has potential, but they all have differing values , to both your squad footballing wise, and as a business asset.

Thing is ... He's nowhere near a 20 million player yet is he ? ..He's not having an akpom or gyokeres season.
Has he the potential to be that in the next 12 to 18 months ? Of course.
But playing for England?? Only if Palmer, Bellingham and Foden, plus whomever else are injured .
And we do have a plethora of ' behind the 9 ' options ( whether good enough or not , we've quite a few on the payroll)

I'd be suggesting that Hackneys value is treble MR to us right now, both in potential and value to our playing.
If Howson retires , and O'Brien went back ... We're fked middle of the park next year without HH.
And Hackney is going to be better than ward prowse and Kelvin Phillips inside 2 years
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Definitely agree at this point hackney more valuable. Proven it for longer and crucial given our midfield situation.


I just think you have to pick and choose who to hold out on, who are those big players and who to sell.

If we are trying this model, then you'd hold rogers based on potential.and only sell him, hackney, van den berg fpr silly money.

You'd seek to sell crooks, silvers, Jones, send back greenwood, sell someone like fry who's older before someone who's just catching big clubs attention and just starting regular football to side that ten mil a year.


Obviously we can't pick and choose who we sell, but we're bringing in ayling, azaz.

If ffp so bad and we have to sell one a year why bring in those?


Still seem to be adding players so I do wonder whether it's a necessity.


I just think there's clearly hackney, Rogers, van dem berg so far who have the high ceiling. As a club I think we have to be strong on certain players. Others you think, 10 mil a 26? Yr old fry, yer potentially sell.

Obviously you need bids so it's not black and white.

I'd love to know the plan behind closed doors. Gibson's written off that debt, ffp looking better according to the accounts thread?


Do we NEED to sell? Or can we hold out and play the game and make big money?
 
I dont see how its in our best interest to sell him and loan him back for the rest of the season. Surely we would be better keeping him and selling him in the summer. Its almost certain his development will continue and his market value increase.
 
Muttley said:
Thinking about it I don't believe that Rogers would be well advised to try to push for a move. Doesn't mean he won't though. But young players should think carefully before getting a reputation as trouble. As others have said it is unlikely that he would get a start for Villa any time soon. If the buy and loan back deal is to be believed that itself tells you that they just want to bank him. He could get a better deal in the summer if a few PL clubs show interest.
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The whole buy and loan back isn't going to work if he has to "force through a move" anyway. If he were to have a strop and down tools to get his big move, then he would be done. The upper management wouldn't want toxic behaviour like that that stole us of income in the building, Carrick wouldn't be able to trust someone of that character and the players would lose respect.

So the idea that his mind is made up, and that he will go for cheap but we get to keep him for 6 months just does not stack up. Another Villa player coming in would be far more plausible, but this isn't.
 
Let’s not forget he’s from the West Midlands and maybe fancies moving back home to be nearer to his family and friends. Hopefully we can convince him that his future lies on Teesside, for the rest of the season at least anyway.
 
BoroMart said:
The whole buy and loan back isn't going to work if he has to "force through a move" anyway. If he were to have a strop and down tools to get his big move, then he would be done. The upper management wouldn't want toxic behaviour like that that stole us of income in the building, Carrick wouldn't be able to trust someone of that character and the players would lose respect.

So the idea that his mind is made up, and that he will go for cheap but we get to keep him for 6 months just does not stack up. Another Villa player coming in would be far more plausible, but this isn't.
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Loan back doesn’t work either as we’d be better off selling and replacing as part of next seasons preparation.

We’d be developing a player that’s not ours in the long term, which is very much against what we’re trying to build.
 
Borodrew said:
If ffp so bad and we have to sell one a year why bring in those?
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FFP isn't so bad, we are actually fairly healthy in that respect, we also have fairly low debts since Gibson wrote much of it off. In fact our assets will be higher than our debts right now which means we will have no problems getting loans and moderate investing in the side.
 
Muttley said:
Thinking about it I don't believe that Rogers would be well advised to try to push for a move. Doesn't mean he won't though.
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The ace card we have is Michael Carrick. He's hugely respected in the dressing room and if anybody can convince a young player that it's in his best interests to knuckle down and be patient, it's him.
 
Seems an old one this, especially saying he's Villa's #1 target.
I'd have thought they'd be looking to strengthen a push for the CL rather than sign a prospect.
If it's a goer though then I hope we get top whack for him. Good luck to the lad if it comes off, but if I were in his shoes and was determined to have a successful career I'd be thinking about the timing of a move to the PL. Much better to go as a 1st team option than risk being down the pecking order and ending up out on loan, season after season.
To my mind he'd be better served playing under Carrick regularly while he develops rather than being loaned out to less of a footballing side.
 
sherlock1969 said:
Lots of talk here about him throwing a strop, having his head turned, being a troublemaker if we refuse the move.

I think that’s unfair.

The lad’s attitude has been spot on since he joined and he’s done absolutely nothing to make us suspect he’d act like that.
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agree entirely, I think the forcing a move head turned thing is largely nonsense.
 
BoroMart said:
You're not being realistic, your post was all assumptions, and negative ones at that. It lacked balance.

"5 Million tops" - complete guess that doesn't even factor in market value of similar players sold ina similar market to a similar market

"we get a 20% sell on fee" - sell on fees to top prem clubs are largely irrelevant, because those clubs keep them for most of their career, so this assumptions makes little sense

"Obviously I don't know but can't see us getting a big wedge upfront." - at least you admit you don't know, but it's another baseless assumption

"He'll now want to go" - another baseless assumption

"Villa can't spend money now" - so then they are trying to get a player on the cheap, That doesn't usually work with players under long contracts

"I can see a compromise" - another baseless assumption.

The facts are that they will need to give us a sizable compensation to let him go.
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You're not being realistic, your post was all assumptions...

You mean like every other post on here that's just assuming things. Nobody here know for sure so we're all speculating and giving our opinion on what we think might be the go, including you. Or are your assumptions not baseless too as you really don't now for sure what's happening? Providing balance? It's a person's opinion they do not need to balance it with somebody else's view. Bizarre expecting anybody to do so really
If those views are perceived by some to be negative then so be it, counter with your positivity.
 
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