Warnock very critical of the club

[FullTiltTraore]

@viv_andersons_nana post is the best in the thread in terms of truth imo. But @Jollyroger's is interesting in terms of backroom staff always found our touchline as being a bit embarrassing only focussed in taking it in turns to go ballistic with officials (I think refs atm are the worst but still). Where's the tactical nous and independence of thought?

As a side I thought it was interesting that NW didn't feel welcome with others at club. Who is that? Physios? Sports science? Catering? HR? Ground staff?

 

[Berwickhillbilly]

My own personal view is like everyone else's that Warnock was leaving in the summer. He knew that and the club new that. I think the club have obviously been looking for someone to take over and decided that man was Wilder. I think they told Warnock that 2 or 3 weeks ago, like he said in his interview, but with Wilder been offered other options we have had to make the decision sooner rather than later. I wish Neil well, and thank him for his time and effort, but now we move on, HERE'S HOPING.

 

[Jr. SkinnyLegs]

You clearly have absolutely no idea what goes on at our football club, not a scooby doo.

"He's had two dozen players in under 18 months and access to all that funding" is categorically not true. Neil Warnock did not identify and ask for those players. I don't know how many times this needs to happen before the penny drops for some people.

It was a stick used to beat Woodgate, Pulis and Karanka with. How many managers need to leave this club and criticise our recruitment before this sticks - THEY DO NOT SIGN THE PLAYERS.

Warnock has had a say in signings to some extent, same with Woodgate and every other manager. There may be some players that he may not have wanted.
However, as a manager you have to get the best out of what you have been given. I don't think at any point this season has Warnock being doing so with the playing staff he has been given. We have enough quality players throughout the team to be doing better in the championship, where outside of Bournemouth, Fulham and possibly West Brom the rest of the teams are much of a muchness and anybody could finish in those last 3 playoff spots.

Instead we have been massively inconsistent for the 2nd half of last season and so far this current season. No obvious plan or style going into games and such a disorganised, incohesive team defensively. That is on Warnock and his coaching staff not the players/recruitment or any other possible excuse for being a badly coached team.

 

[Otto42]

Warnock has had a say in signings to some extent, same with Woodgate and every other manager. There may be some players that he may not have wanted.
However, as a manager you have to get the best out of what you have been given. I don't think at any point this season has Warnock being doing so with the playing staff he has been given. We have enough quality players throughout the team to be doing better in the championship, where outside of Bournemouth, Fulham and possibly West Brom the rest of the teams are much of a muchness and anybody could finish in those last 3 playoff spots.

Instead we have been massively inconsistent for the 2nd half of last season and so far this current season. No obvious plan or style going into games and such a disorganised, incohesive team defensively. That is on Warnock and his coaching staff not the players/recruitment or any other possible excuse for being a badly coached team.

This sums it up nicely for me. Having been to four away games this season and watched the others on live stream, I left The Hawthorns yesterday happy with the point against a top of the table side, but frustrated we hadn't won having been the better side for all but twenty minutes after half time and that's a pattern for the season, especially in the games we've lost.

Our dropping deep to defend a lead may be something the players have chosen to do, but in my mind that's probably down to how we set up. Overall, we have the makings of a decent side and with a bit of tweaking a play off place is there for the taking.

 

[Jdub]

Not critical enough

 

[allied_assault]

Just thinking about this. This thread has reached 6 pages now and all everyone is doing is talking about recruitment. Not the lack of cohesion in our play, the lack of a style or system almost 18 months into a job, the fact our second half record is absolutely appalling, the lack of interest in keeping the ball, the poor results, the appalling way last season ended, Warnock using Mendez-Laing and building his fitness for, well, nobody quite knows, the poor set pieces, the fact he wrote the season off when we were chasing the top six when there was a third of it left to play and he’d just signed four of ‘his’ players, the fact we got worse the more resources he was given, the snide comments about club staff and throwing playing personnel under the bus when he was just as culpable if not more so… the abuse of officials, the moaning, the ‘keeper smacking it up the pitch to nobody, the fact he moaned about not having a target man and then got one and left him on the bench, the midfielders at wing back while defenders sit on the bench and our wing backs play for other clubs, the countless times our ‘man-for-man’ system ended up with opposition players being unmarked and doing damage, the gaping holes through the middle of the team… how he sacked the cups off as quickly as he could, the fact some players appeared untouchable regardless of form while others were criticised…

Nobody is talking about the real reasons he’s gone. The results weren’t good enough. He had us near the playoffs and it fell apart after he made his signings. This season we’re struggling. He’s had two dozen new players in just under 18 months. He had access to all of that funding, the enviable training facilities and the ridiculously productive youth academy. He had all of that and he leaves us in 14th place, moaning about how others are at fault. It’s b*llocks, IMO. Smoke and mirrors. He’ll read this thread and love that everyone is talking about Bausor and Scott and not him. Exactly as he likes it, as he planned it, and as I’m sure we’ll hear lots more about on Talksport and the like in the coming weeks.

Great post viv
Don’t forget that “we finished 10th without a striker last season”
Well this season he has had 3 and we look like getting nowhere near the top six.

 

[viv_andersons_nana]

I agree that it is better Neil leaves now rather than things drag on to season end.
I agree he has contributed to a disappointing last year.
BUT that post is uncharacteristically imbalanced Viv IMHO.

He's made mistakes, but my God he is far from alone.
Gibson has significantly reduced budget. There has been a woeful recruitment operation from CEO closing deals to scouts sourcing players. The structure has been anything but harmonious.
The academy has not produced quality for a long time (hopefully Coburn is an exception, but not really academy anyway).
The players have not exactly covered themselves in glory.
There has been nothing but problems at the club since the woeful recruitment of summer 2016.
There have been LOTS of contributing factors to our current lowly position.

Warnock has gone. It will only be "right" if Gibson pulls his finger out and makes a good appointment and addresses the other issues on his watch. I hope he does, but I'm not holding my breath.

Neil is rising 73, has had a great career, has a lovely family and is minted. I'm not losing sleep at him going, but I very much wish him well and thank him for us not being in League one, which is very much where we were heading.

To be fair I accept it's a one-sided post but I think all of those things were under his control TBH. We went from a really well organised unit first half of last season to a really disorganised one very quickly. He was never able to get it back together. He said we were "a cherry on the top type of player" away from being able to challenge and then changed it completely within a couple of months. I would love to know what brought about that change in mindset because it's quite an extreme change of view, isn't it?

I would love to know why our season fell apart because we didn't get a penalty against Blackburn in January. If you were running a football club and you heard the manager say that in April, May, and then repeat it after the following season has started, wouldn't you be slightly alarmed? I would be. How can a whole season fall apart on one moment like that? It can destabilise things but not to that extent, surely. I would've loved some local journos to have asked him for more information and context on what he meant by that. Did he not think it was daft to go public with how we were planning for the following season while we were chasing a play-off place? It was weird, I said it at the time. It didn't feel right. It gave the players an out, even subconsciously. Switching off a tiny bit costs you, especially when you need the players giving everything they have to get near to the top six. It was a weird thing to do, part of a number of weird decisions. Also, if you were in charge and you backed your manager to the point of four new players and then a month later he essentially said the season was done and it was all about the next one wouldn't you have reservations about giving him more resources? He signed four goalkeepers in a year. That's a bit mad isn't it?

What I would say to Warnock would be to thank him for the job he did to keep us up and galvanising the team and probably even to the town to some extent. He got a tune out of Bola and Dijksteel, he made us hard to beat and put some pride back into it. I was absolutely loving it until January. I liked watching his press conferences. I hadn't posted on here in months and thought it was a car-crash under Woodgate but Warnock definitely put some pride back. This is as someone who never wanted him in charge by the way. I disliked him before he was appointed but I thought he did an excellent job in very difficult circumstances before it fell apart. He should probably have left at the end of last season and I would imagine he probably wishes he had now.

More broadly on the club, I have no doubts that there are or have been issues behind the scenes over the past few years. I would say if they have dragged their heels and not got the left-sided defender we've desperately needed for the entire calendar year then that is poor form. Every single Boro fan can see we've needed that player for ages. If they are making the lives of their managers harder than that is bizarre and difficult to fathom. You have to hope that they don't do it to the next bloke. The number of players signed under Warnock in such a short space of time and when money is apparently very tight is quite staggering though.

Essentially, though, Warnock lost control of it in January and couldn't turn it back around. I think that's why he's been sacked. The club have got someone else lined up to replace someone who was leaving in the summer anyway. It's better to do it now. It's not as if we were flying under Warnock. We've been treading water under him for the whole year so this makes more sense IMO. The form, the excuses, they begin to wear thin and it's just reached the end of it's course. As I say, it's not like we were flying. It was time to change it IMO.

 

[Otto42]

To be fair I accept it's a one-sided post but I think all of those things were under his control TBH. We went from a really well organised unit first half of last season to a really disorganised one very quickly. He was never able to get it back together. He said we were "a cherry on the top type of player" away from being able to challenge and then changed it completely within a couple of months. I would love to know what brought about that change in mindset because it's quite an extreme change of view, isn't it?

I would love to know why our season fell apart because we didn't get a penalty against Blackburn in January. If you were running a football club and you heard the manager say that in April, May, and then repeat it after the following season has started, wouldn't you be slightly alarmed? I would be. How can a whole season fall apart on one moment like that? It can destabilise things but not to that extent, surely. I would've loved some local journos to have asked him for more information and context on what he meant by that. Did he not think it was daft to go public with how we were planning for the following season while we were chasing a play-off place? It was weird, I said it at the time. It didn't feel right. It gave the players an out, even subconsciously. Switching off a tiny bit costs you, especially when you need the players giving everything they have to get near to the top six. It was a weird thing to do, part of a number of weird decisions. Also, if you were in charge and you backed your manager to the point of four new players and then a month later he essentially said the season was done and it was all about the next one wouldn't you have reservations about giving him more resources? He signed four goalkeepers in a year. That's a bit mad isn't it?

What I would say to Warnock would be to thank him for the job he did to keep us up and galvanising the team and probably even to the town to some extent. He got a tune out of Bola and Dijksteel, he made us hard to beat and put some pride back into it. I was absolutely loving it until January. I liked watching his press conferences. I hadn't posted on here in months and thought it was a car-crash under Woodgate but Warnock definitely put some pride back. This is as someone who never wanted him in charge by the way. I disliked him before he was appointed but I thought he did an excellent job in very difficult circumstances before it fell apart. He should probably have left at the end of last season and I would imagine he probably wishes he had now.

More broadly on the club, I have no doubts that there are or have been issues behind the scenes over the past few years. I would say if they have dragged their heels and not got the left-sided defender we've desperately needed for the entire calendar year then that is poor form. Every single Boro fan can see we've needed that player for ages. If they are making the lives of their managers harder than that is bizarre and difficult to fathom. You have to hope that they don't do it to the next bloke. The number of players signed under Warnock in such a short space of time and when money is apparently very tight is quite staggering though.

Essentially, though, Warnock lost control of it in January and couldn't turn it back around. I think that's why he's been sacked. The club have got someone else lined up to replace someone who was leaving in the summer anyway. It's better to do it now. It's not as if we were flying under Warnock. We've been treading water under him for the whole year so this makes more sense IMO. The form, the excuses, they begin to wear thin and it's just reached the end of it's course. As I say, it's not like we were flying. It was time to change it IMO.

Seemed to fall appart a bit after the January transfer window, which tbf is what's happened with our last couple of managers. Maybe it's an issue with the transfer window per se, unsettling players? Or maybe it's something perculiar to us?

Woodgate even seemed to have found a formula until he bought in Roberts and Nemecha and the windows during Uncle Tony's time were odd to say the least, weren't we top one September and comfortable in the play offs next January only to collapse and finish 7th?

 

[rbmfc1985]

Seemed to fall appart a bit after the January transfer window, which tbf is what's happened with our last couple of managers. Maybe it's an issue with the transfer window per se, unsettling players? Or maybe it's something perculiar to us?

Woodgate even seemed to have found a formula until he bought in Roberts and Nemecha and the windows during Uncle Tony's time were odd to say the least, weren't we top one September and comfortable in the play offs next January only to collapse and finish 7th?

Even in the promotion season we dipped after the January transfer window and only just made it up on the last day of the season. And in the Premier League season we were 15th at the end of the January transfer window then went into free fall.

Considering many managers we've had since Mclaren had had a similar experience in the transfer windows and have left bemoaning missed opportunities, players they didn't want and being denied their main targets, it's hard to deny that there has been a problem.

If your chairman spends £20+ million on players you didn't want and don't fit the managers style of play, it's never going to go well. Hopefully the new Head of Football working with a manager who has a similar ethos will help resolve some of these problems.

 

[Willow]

Should ban the January window as far as I'm concerned. Summer window should closed day before season starts and then only emergency loans until end of season.

 

[Jr. SkinnyLegs]

Seemed to fall appart a bit after the January transfer window, which tbf is what's happened with our last couple of managers. Maybe it's an issue with the transfer window per se, unsettling players? Or maybe it's something perculiar to us?

Woodgate even seemed to have found a formula until he bought in Roberts and Nemecha and the windows during Uncle Tony's time were odd to say the least, weren't we top one September and comfortable in the play offs next January only to collapse and finish 7th?

I do think bringing in players during the January transfer window hasn't helped us in past seasons. But I do think there were other factors like a lack of depth and loss of key players especially last season (Dijksteel, Tav missed some time, Dael Fry).

 

[indeedido]

To be fair I accept it's a one-sided post but I think all of those things were under his control TBH. We went from a really well organised unit first half of last season to a really disorganised one very quickly. He was never able to get it back together. He said we were "a cherry on the top type of player" away from being able to challenge and then changed it completely within a couple of months. I would love to know what brought about that change in mindset because it's quite an extreme change of view, isn't it?

I would love to know why our season fell apart because we didn't get a penalty against Blackburn in January. If you were running a football club and you heard the manager say that in April, May, and then repeat it after the following season has started, wouldn't you be slightly alarmed? I would be. How can a whole season fall apart on one moment like that? It can destabilise things but not to that extent, surely. I would've loved some local journos to have asked him for more information and context on what he meant by that. Did he not think it was daft to go public with how we were planning for the following season while we were chasing a play-off place? It was weird, I said it at the time. It didn't feel right. It gave the players an out, even subconsciously. Switching off a tiny bit costs you, especially when you need the players giving everything they have to get near to the top six. It was a weird thing to do, part of a number of weird decisions. Also, if you were in charge and you backed your manager to the point of four new players and then a month later he essentially said the season was done and it was all about the next one wouldn't you have reservations about giving him more resources? He signed four goalkeepers in a year. That's a bit mad isn't it?

What I would say to Warnock would be to thank him for the job he did to keep us up and galvanising the team and probably even to the town to some extent. He got a tune out of Bola and Dijksteel, he made us hard to beat and put some pride back into it. I was absolutely loving it until January. I liked watching his press conferences. I hadn't posted on here in months and thought it was a car-crash under Woodgate but Warnock definitely put some pride back. This is as someone who never wanted him in charge by the way. I disliked him before he was appointed but I thought he did an excellent job in very difficult circumstances before it fell apart. He should probably have left at the end of last season and I would imagine he probably wishes he had now.

More broadly on the club, I have no doubts that there are or have been issues behind the scenes over the past few years. I would say if they have dragged their heels and not got the left-sided defender we've desperately needed for the entire calendar year then that is poor form. Every single Boro fan can see we've needed that player for ages. If they are making the lives of their managers harder than that is bizarre and difficult to fathom. You have to hope that they don't do it to the next bloke. The number of players signed under Warnock in such a short space of time and when money is apparently very tight is quite staggering though.

Essentially, though, Warnock lost control of it in January and couldn't turn it back around. I think that's why he's been sacked. The club have got someone else lined up to replace someone who was leaving in the summer anyway. It's better to do it now. It's not as if we were flying under Warnock. We've been treading water under him for the whole year so this makes more sense IMO. The form, the excuses, they begin to wear thin and it's just reached the end of it's course. As I say, it's not like we were flying. It was time to change it IMO.

Much more balanced Viv and I largely agree, I just have a degree more sympathy with Warnock given the Club actions, and defensive injuries all hitting at the same time.

 

[HundredRoom]

In the interview he claimed to have got rid of a few bad eggs. But in reality their contracts were allowed to run down.