Will Spence be our biggest ever sale ?

indeedido said:
Middlesbrough then deny Forest appeal to play Spence at Wembley in Play Off Final,
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No appeal necessary as the rules are clear

Loanees cant play against their parent club in any competition unless there is a specific clause in the loan deal. This isn't common among most clubs, as they dont want their own player scoring against them or anything like that.

The fact he never played in the forest game shows there’s no such clause.
 
equaliser said:
It's a shame he feels as if he's burnt his bridges here. He is a natural wing-back - as opposed to Jones who's a winger through and through for me. Obviously some beef went down with Warnock and I can't say I'd blame Spence if this is the case: Warnock rubs a lot of people up the wrong way. It's also probably true to say that living in Nottingham is attractive to a young London boy - he can get back on a Saturday night in two hours and spend the weekend with his mates/family.

Forest could go up the form they're in and then he may well wish to stay. You'd hope they wouldn't try to use this to try and get him on the cheap.

On the subject of winger/wingbacks, Wilder's formation straitjacket does concern me a little. I get the idea that coaches these days like to impose a tactical blueprint on the entire club, but defensively our most consistent period in recent times was for a time last season when we had a back four of Dijksteel, Fry, McNair. Bola, and the ability to go to a back four, especially when we're behind, whilst it doesn't completely release Jones from defensive duties should get him higher up the pitch. It would be ironic if the source of Spence and Warnock's difficulties were Spence's inability/unwillingness to adopt the kind of right-back-style defensive discipline that Warnock's successor might have released him from
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I'm not sure that's true of Jones. He's proved that he's got the stamina and discipline to play as a wing back. If anything his defensive qualities are better than Spence's.
Also I don't think there's a tactical straightjacket at all. We've seen long periods of games with Jones pushed right up with Dijksteel right in behind him on the right, and Taylor tucking in on the far side. It strongly resembles a 442 in those scenarios
 
You have to remember by the end of this year he will have had about one good season in the Championship, and although he's been very good for Forest, we know how "not so good" he could be also. The fact we let him go on loan must also raise some doubts about him.

Also, don't forget, he's a Right back/ Right Wing back, and there's absolutely loads of them about, especially English ones, and he was even third choice for us behind Dijksteele, and now Jones (obv Jones is much better now), which is why we let him go.

I think he would improve more by going abroad and guaranteed a game at a good level, rather than playing a bit part for a prem side, like what happened with Ryan Sessegnon. Sessegnon was better than Spence, before he left Fulham, and that was three years ago. They're the same age now and left backs/ left wing backs were, and still are, more in demand, so I doubt we'd get anywhere near what Spurs got for Sessegnon when he was bought three years younger than Spence.

A lot of money has gone out of the game too, with Covid and FFP biting teams etc. I think we'd be lucky to get more than 12m, but unfortunately he has to go really and I think most clubs will realise we have zero chance of keeping two good RWB's, especially if we don't go up. Would have been great if one of them could play left side, but it's not going to happen.

How many of these would he get a game ahead of, as well as Jones?

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wilkos_perm said:
I'm not sure that's true of Jones. He's proved that he's got the stamina and discipline to play as a wing back. If anything his defensive qualities are better than Spence's.
Also I don't think there's a tactical straightjacket at all. We've seen long periods of games with Jones pushed right up with Dijksteel right in behind him on the right, and Taylor tucking in on the far side. It strongly resembles a 442 in those scenarios
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Yup, I've been saying that for ages.

If teams don't double up on Jones he sometimes even ends up as a high forward, Tav sits deeper/ wider and has the fitness to cover left, Taylor drops back, the defence all move right one, and Dijksteele ends up behind Jones, or it goes like the 4-4-2 like you say.

Absolute classic case of the outside players, rotating anticlockwise around the centre. The funny thing is, what really helps this is Tav's fitness as he can cover so much ground all game, sort of gives Crooks an easier time to get forward too, which is why him and Jones combine so well.

The problem is when teams do double up on Jones, with Bola out we can't press on much from the left with Taylor, so it cuts our options down. Having Bola back over there will help once he gets into the swing of things, but Taylor's been good dropping back left, when Jones has been able to push up high right.
 
Andy_W said:
Yup, I've been saying that for ages.

If teams don't double up on Jones he sometimes even ends up as a high forward, Tav sits deeper/ wider and has the fitness to cover left, Taylor drops back, the defence all move right one, and Dijksteele ends up behind Jones, or it goes like the 4-4-2 like you say.

Absolute classic case of the outside players, rotating anticlockwise around the centre. The funny thing is, what really helps this is Tav's fitness as he can cover so much ground all game, sort of gives Crooks an easier time to get forward too, which is why him and Jones combine so well.

The problem is when teams do double up on Jones, with Bola out we can't press on much from the left with Taylor, so it cuts our options down. Having Bola back over there will help once he gets into the swing of things, but Taylor's been good dropping back left, when Jones has been able to push up high right.
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Yeah I wonder a bit if we have to be careful what we wish for down the left i.e. whether our more steady approach down that side allows is to overload on the right. Probably not though, stretching teams in all directions has to be better, but we would just need to be diligent in terms off not everyone pushing on
 
Sell on clauses are always a gamble.

They always come hand in glove with a lower up front price than you can get.

I wouldn't be too fussed about one if he's sold to a top club. If he is, any sale is likely to be for a lesser club, for a lower price if things don't go well.
 
Frozen Horse said:
Sell on clauses are always a gamble.

They always come hand in glove with a lower up front price than you can get.

I wouldn't be too fussed about one if he's sold to a top club. If he is, any sale is likely to be for a lesser club, for a lower price if things don't go well.
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True. I always say stick a big sell clause in and most times the players don't go on to do much.

I get they are complicated. As you say they usually come with lower up front money. So you are basically gambling on the longterm future of a player. Do you take 15mil up front or 10 mil and 15-20% future sell on (based on the profit and excluding original fee).

Then again the worst example was Southampton with Bale. Spurs 'bought out' the 20% sell on clause for 5mil. I know its an extreme example but 'oh dear' 😂

I genuinely think a top manager can make something of Spence. You look at wingbacks at clubs are they are gold dust and so important in today's game. I'd really want a sell on with Spence or Jones. You need just one good season in the prem and the value will triple or more.
 
Same_as_before said:
The price of a footballer as in a car must be it's value. In theory the more you pay, dependent on how much a contract is left, the better player you get.

This BTW was disproved the day we bought Davenport.
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Alves and Assombalonga also disprove that theory.

As does on a much happier note George Friend.🙂
 
TeessideCleveland said:
Jones started on the left for us for a couple of games early this season
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His better games are when he links up with Crooks and Dijksteel.

I'm in the camp of 'we will never see Spence in a Boro shirt again' and truthfully speaking, I'm not that bothered whilst Jones is performing the way he is.

For Spence, it was best he moved on, the lad was going stale here and needed a fresh start. Cooper is certainly getting the best out of him and he is performing better for Forrest than he ever did for us. The potential was always there.
 
Norman_Conquest said:
His better games are when he links up with Crooks and Dijksteel.

I'm in the camp of 'we will never see Spence in a Boro shirt again' and truthfully speaking, I'm not that bothered whilst Jones is performing the way he is.

For Spence, it was best he moved on, the lad was going stale here and needed a fresh start. Cooper is certainly getting the best out of him and he is performing better for Forrest than he ever did for us. The potential was always there.
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Totally agree I was just stating that he has played on the left
 
when you look at the clubs interested then it's quite possible. Might be bonus related sale, which means it could take a few years to get over 18m
 
The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
Think Traore is at the moment at £18m, but someone who couldn't even cement a place in our first team could become our record sale in the summer if the rumours are to be believed.
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Why does everyone assume we are going to sell him? Why would we want to sell him? Surely it would be best for us to keep him and see if we can incorporate him into our team. If we could then we would be better team because of it.
 
snowman1962 said:
Why does everyone assume we are going to sell him? Why would we want to sell him? Surely it would be best for us to keep him and see if we can incorporate him into our team. If we could then we would be better team becuace of it.
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It seems he doesn't want to be here - Wilder went to see him and he extended his loan at Forest.
 
snowman1962 said:
Why does everyone assume we are going to sell him? Why would we want to sell him? Surely it would be best for us to keep him and see if we can incorporate him into our team. If we could then we would be better team because of it.
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We can't hold him against his will, that's no good for anyone.

Let's get as much as we can for him, wish him all the best and go our separate ways.
 
I think where spence ends up could well depend on where we, his parent club are. If we are in the prem would that change his opinion a bit given we have a different set up. 1 good season in the prem for a young player can double their value.
 
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