Manchester City’s victories are absolutely meaningless IMO

The situation will never change until the football authorities' bring in some strict financial ceilings. Football needs to rebase itself with a more level playing field. We all know that will never happen. The greed league just get greedier.
 
Jedi boro said:
The southern press turned once we took Juninho from Arsenal.
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Absolute nonsense, that's when we had more attention and praise than at any other time. BBC Saturday lunchtime TV was interrupted by Des Lynam to say he'd signed for us.

We had coverage like we've never seen before and it escalated when Emerson and Ravanelli came through the doors.

So why did they come here?
 
Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
Who writes the rules, when and why?

It's interesting that you picked out those clubs but not the big spenders that have done so for decades, Man Utd, Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal. Are they the clubs with influence on the governing bodies, they certainly have it within the media.

The clubs you mention, are they in danger of going to the wall and if not why the investigation?

Financial Fair Play is only worth having if it applies to all football clubs and exists to protect them. It isn't there for that, it's to maintain the status quo, and clubs such as Man City and Newcastle now have the wealth to change that, regardless of where that wealth came from.

If the club backer is the problem then that should have been nipped in the bud earlier, perhaps foreign ownership should be outlawed if you're looking at it from a nationalistic point of view. It wasn't, the clubs are right to spend what they wish, as the other dominating clubs have and still do. That has been the nature of the game until the status quo was threatened. Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal chose to chase American money, they're being trumped by the Arab's, and that is all FFP is about.

We see local success in football when a chairman or backer has money to spend and they fly through the divisions with few watching them. A team in Middlesbrough has won promotion to the Northern League First Division this season without having a ground to play on and few fans to watch them. A comparatively new club. No investigation by the ruling body and no fuss locally other than by a few grumbling fans on twitter, unaware of how their own clubs came about.

You either have football rules for the whole of the game and uphold them vigorously or not at all.

Personally I'm in favour of a level playing field, equal squad sizes and wages, for me that would make the game more competitive and interesting than it is now but that's my choice, I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong.
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I broadly agree with you, I think you know that.

But my point is about clubs falsifying accounts and not declaring payments made to numerous people. If Steve Gibson was doing that then he should’ve been punished. If he’d set up a company in Abu Dhabi and paid half of Robson’s salary into that, for unspecified consultancy work, while declaring to the authorities that Robson was only warning half of what he actually was, then he should’ve been punished.

I generally agree with you about how and why these rules came to be and I agree completely with your last paragraph. But the fact is that the rules DO exist and they exist for everyone. If other clubs are found to have breached them then they should be dealt with like City have.

I pulled out City because they’re in trouble with the Premier League and have been fined twice by UEFA and the scale is unprecedented - I think City and PSG are subject to further exposure because of the appalling human right’s abuses of their owners - but I could easily have pulled out PSG, Juventus, Barcelona, Inter Milan, Juventus, AC Milan, Monaco, Roma, Marseille or Besiktas. West Ham, Rangers, Chelsea and Leicester were fined in 2022. Everton have been referred to an independent commission.

So there are plenty of examples of clubs - traditionally ‘big’ clubs and not owned by Arabs - being fined and punished for breaching the rules.
 
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El Guapo said:
I was once stood on the Holgate as a kid in the Clive Road corner back in the early 80s in the days of the 3/4,000 crowds. A studious looking guy in a long black coat and reading a book periodically shouted out phrases of the critical thinking genre, one of which was “is this a business or is it?” At the time I remember thinking, as those around me surely did, that he was a complete crank. These days I look at football and remembering that guy and think perhaps he wasn’t actually a crank but a visionary ahead of his time.
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Its always been a business. Back in the Halycon days of Steve Bloomer we would have only invested that cash thinking we'd get some kind of ROI.
 
If be interested on robs view in this.

As there was an awful lot of jealousy about our players at the time.
 
I think what Viv is saying is that rules have been broken. Its like saying 'oh well the offside rule didn't used to exist so can't complain about it being ignored'. The point is there are rules in place now and they are cheating.

Gibson never broke any rules and nor was he the ruler of a country with an abominable attitude towards particular demographics.
 
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atypical_boro said:
This categorically isn't true. I've read books written by people they knew growing up and Noel (and Paul) in particular was a regular home and away and attendee. Liam by his own admission doesn't go to many games now. Given they lived in Longsight its hardly surprising they went to matches.
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Unless I'm mistaken, Paul has never been in Oasis?

Noel is often claimed he was in the Hacienda every week, again it's doubted by many people who knew him or knew the Hacienda in its heyday. He must have been a busy lad in those days. Is it that surprising his mates confirm the whole "footy mad Oasis" myth - they've probably got backstage passes riding on their relationship with him.


I lived in Longsight, I didn't go to city games as I had no interest in city.
 
to be honest alot of teams are at it throughout the pyramid it just happens that man city are at the top of the tree with the most money.

Man city
Chelsea
Sheff united

plucky teams like these 2 spending above their means because of their owners and the press go on about them as some sort of all football fans wet dream.
Wrexham
Salford

in the past fulham, forest, everton, derby, villa, bournemouth have all over spent to get where they are.
 
The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
Unless I'm mistaken, Paul has never been in Oasis?

Noel is often claimed he was in the Hacienda every week, again it's doubted by many people who knew him or knew the Hacienda in its heyday. He must have been a busy lad in those days. Is it that surprising his mates confirm the whole "footy mad Oasis" myth - they've probably got backstage passes riding on their relationship with him.


I lived in Longsight, I didn't go to city games as I had no interest in city.
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Ok, there is video footage of Noel in the Hacienda. I don't know how often he used to go, maybe it was twice a year or maybe it was once a fortnight. I talk with fondness about the (Cannon Park) Arena but in truth I probably only went there about 20 times. I've no doubt that if I was famous some envious soul might say 'he was never in the Arena'. I mean, how would anyone actually know unless they knew who I was at the time? Noel was a roadie with the Inspiral Carpets and also knew Johnny Marr personally in the 80s, is it that hard to believe that he went to the Hacienda at least a handful of times?

"I lived in Longsight, I didn't go to city games as I had no interest in city." - Not really sure what point you're making here, you're a Boro fan. Are you saying he literally invented his fandom of City in 1994 at the age of 27 out of nothing? I'd say that's a lot more far fetched than the idea that he actually went to a few/some/lots of* (delete as appropriate) matches as a kid/teenager when he was living in Longsight/Burnage, walking distance from the ground.
 
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atypical_boro said:
Ok, there is video footage of Noel in the Hacienda. I don't know how often he used to go, maybe it was twice a year or maybe it was once a fortnight. I talk with fondness about the (Cannon Park) Arena but in truth I probably only went there about 20 times. I've no doubt that if I was famous some envious soul might say 'he was never in the Arena'. I mean, how would anyone actually know unless they knew who I was at the time? Noel was a roadie with the Inspiral Carpets and also knew Johnny Marr personally in the 80s, is it that hard to believe that he went to the Hacienda at least a handful of times?
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Neither of us know of course, and it's not a hill I'm willing to die on. However I certainly think he's "over egging" his support for City when they were rubbish.

One of my best mates was there at the time, as he is/was best mates with both Rob Gretton (who owned the Hacienda alongside the rest of the Factory crew) and Mike Pickering who DJ'ed there. They used to go to City together both home and away, and he doesn't remember Noel either at City or in the Hac even though he was right at the heart of the Manchester music scene and the City travelling support (he's actually a Spurs fan, but that's another story). I'm not talking about him going "a handful of times" but listening to him on documentaries it's like any event that happened ini there that had some cultural significance he was there and can speak as an authority about it.

As evidenced by the Nigel Gibb thread, even people who dont know someone will recognise them from the match, and there's a lot of people who dont with Noel - which of course doesn't prove me right but does raise suspicions.

atypical_boro said:
atypical_boro said:
"I lived in Longsight, I didn't go to city games as I had no interest in city." - Not really sure what point you're making here, you're a Boro fan. Are you saying he literally invented his fandom of City in 1994 at the age of 27 out of nothing? I'd say that's a lot more far fetched than the idea that he actually went to a few/some/lots of* (delete as appropriate) matches as a kid/teenager when he was living in Longsight/Burnage, walking distance from the ground.
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My point is that I had better things to do than go and watch City (like go and watch Boro), and little interest in them. Could it be that Noel was the same and would rather be playing on his guitar or down the pub than watching 3rd division City ?

Whilst I wouldn't say he'd invented his fandom, I'd maintain it's probably something that's amplified given it's a great marketing tool for him and his band.
 
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relfyoftheboro said:
I genuinely dont see being promoted as a good thing for our club. I want to be in a proper league
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This is naive.
Our club has lost more money since relegation in 2009 than in its entire history prior to that. We lose a fortune every season in this league.
Gibson O'Neill cover those losses and enable us to continue playing.
If we are promoted:
1. The Club has a revenue stream that it can operate within, no longer requiring further loans from GO'N.
2. The Club has a chance of actually reducing some of the debt to owner.
3. We get to see the best players in the world at The Riverside.
4. We get a much greater chance of seeing our club win another cup through having a stronger team.
5. We see The Riverside full every week.
etc etc etc.
This nonsense that every Championship season is so exciting is bizarre.
This season has been very enjoyable, but it is one of just 3 since 2009.

Middlesbrough can't compete for the PL title or CL places, but so what.
Beating Man City 8-1, Chelsea 3-0, Man U 4-1 and beating every so called big club has got to mean more than squeezing past Reading or Preston.
I'm pretty sure Gibson feels exactly the same way.
Getting aroused because we take 5-6k to Preston or Blackburn doesn't make sense to me, especially when we invariably fall flat and the day out is not so good really.
Have some ambition. We are not a huge club, but we can operate in the PL and should always try and do so.
 
indeedido said:
Have some ambition. We are not a huge club, but we can operate in the PL and should always try and do so.
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I dont think we can though we are about 19th in terms of financial backing we cant compete anymore unless gibson sells up to an even richer investor and i dont want him too. Whos to say luton dont go up and sell up to a foreign investor and we will have another tin pot club just like Bournemouth as a Premier league mainstay. Until its broken up into the super league and the rest i dont boro associated with it.
 
The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
Neither of us know of course, and it's not a hill I'm willing to die on. However I certainly think he's "over egging" his support for City when they were rubbish.

One of my best mates was there at the time, as he is/was best mates with both Rob Gretton (who owned the Hacienda alongside the rest of the Factory crew) and Mike Pickering who DJ'ed there. They used to go to City together both home and away, and he doesn't remember Noel either at City or in the Hac even though he was right at the heart of the Manchester music scene and the City travelling support (he's actually a Spurs fan, but that's another story). I'm not talking about him going "a handful of times" but listening to him on documentaries it's like any event that happened ini there that had some cultural significance he was there and can speak as an authority about it.

As evidenced by the Nigel Gibb thread, even people who dont know someone will recognise them from the match, and there's a lot of people who dont with Noel - which of course doesn't prove me right but does raise suspicions.



My point is that I had better things to do than go and watch City (like go and watch Boro), and little interest in them. Could it be that Noel was the same and would rather be playing on his guitar or down the pub than watching 3rd division City ?

Whilst I wouldn't say he'd invented his fandom, I'd maintain it's probably something that's amplified given it's a great marketing tool for him and his band.
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Well indeed neither of us know. I can't really imagine Rob Gretton would know how often Noel went when he'd have had no clue who he was, but whatever. If you saw the video footage of him in the Hacienda you'll see why no one recognises him later, he looked totally different. They definitely used to go in the early 90s (after its heyday) because Peter Hook (who also owned it) referred to it in an interview back in 1994, when he did know who they were.

Noel has been on documentaries talking about it but I don't think he's ever claimed he was there for every important event. Even if he went 6 times he will have a fair view of what it was like, people are often jealous that he gets asked to talk on these shows but that's because he had a huge impact on pop culture in Britain, more so than the people moaning about it who may have gone more often (or owned it ;)).

Anyway, I guess you either believe it or you don't. I can't for one second imagine that Noel didn't go to enough City games to class himself as a City fan before the 90s. City actually *weren't* crap in the 70s when he started going, won the League Cup and came 2nd and 4th in the top flight within a few seasons. I've got no idea how many times Noel watched them in the 80s, he claims he did a season with a big group where they went to every match home and away (no one has debunked this in any of the books, and they're not ALL still his mates), but neither does Rob Gretton really (or how often he went to the Hacienda). I've never heard Noel claim he went to Wembley in 76 when he was 9 as they were pretty skint.

And if Rob's anything like his Paddy Considine portrayal, he's a bit of a mardy bum anyway :D ;).
 
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atypical_boro said:
Well indeed neither of us know. I can't really imagine Rob Gretton would know how often Noel went when he'd have had no clue who he was, but whatever. If you saw the video footage of him in the Hacienda you'll see why no one recognises him later, he looked totally different. They definitely used to go in the early 90s (after its heyday) because Peter Hook (who also owned it) referred to it in an interview back in 1994, when he did know who they were.

Noel has been on documentaries talking about it but I don't think he's ever claimed he was there for every important event. Even if he went 6 times he will have a fair view of what it was like, people are often jealous that he gets asked to talk on these shows but that's because he had a huge impact on pop culture in Britain, more so than the people moaning about it who may have gone more often (or owned it ;)).

Anyway, I guess you either believe it or you don't. I can't for one second imagine that Noel didn't go to enough City games to class himself as a City fan before the 90s. City actually *weren't* crap in the 70s when he started going, won the League Cup and came 2nd and 4th in the top flight within a few seasons. I've got no idea how many times Noel watched them in the 80s, he claims he did a season with a big group where they went to every match home and away (no one has debunked this in any of the books, and they're not ALL still his mates), but neither does Rob Gretton really (or how often he went to the Hacienda). I've never heard Noel claim he went to Wembley in 76 when he was 9 as they were pretty skint.

And if Rob's anything like his Paddy Considine portrayal, he's a bit of a mardy bum anyway :D ;).
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Rob Gretton died in 1999, so he'd struggle to get asked to appear on these documentaries.
 
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