Wow. Latest Hartlepool polling...

I wonder who enforced his selection?

As per reports at the time the local Labour Party had a list drawn up... he wasn’t on it.

he was campaigning for the PCC (which to be honest he was/should have been a shoe in for it)

Then the next thing you know he is the one and only candidate in Hartlepool and the local Labour Party made it clear it want their decision

Looks like a massive own goal for Labour and he has egg on his face for not getting either role.
I don't actually blame Dr Williams for this. He was still campaigning for the PCC position until the day before he was 'imposed' as the Parliamentary candidate.

I mean, what else could he do?
He's Labour through and through.
 
As a member of the Hartlepool CLP I can tell you it was a selection imposed upon us and although I think he'd be a great MP I think it was outrageously stupid to nominate him for Hartlepool.
Who imposed it on you?
I’m pretty sure they will be on their way out the door tomorrow
 
As a member of the Hartlepool CLP I can tell you it was a selection imposed upon us and although I think he'd be a great MP I think it was outrageously stupid to nominate him for Hartlepool.

Well there you go. Why didn't the leadership go with the local party? Labour is right up against it then shoots itself in the foot.
 
How many 'disaster capitalists' do you think are out there? A few, for sure, but not tens of thousands and definitely not hundreds of thousands.

Hatred of foreigners? Again, some but not huge numbers.

Maybe a return to the 1960s, but that also seems an unlikely vote winner because to remember the 1960s properly you'd have to be at least 75 by the time of the 2017 referendum. I wonder if enough people thought the 1960s were that good to make a difference.

Perhaps it's more about people believing that the UK could make its own way in the 21st century because there's a big, motivated workforce that can make things and deliver services without the bureaucratic EU involvement. I have no idea whether that's the case, or not, but this desire for self determinism is a powerful tool.
Na, mainly B
 
I always though longer queues favoured Labour as Tories were much more likely to use postal votes. I sincerely hope the long queues are mostly Labour supporters - I can't see a Labour victory sadly but I really hope we do.
More likely covid regulations
 
Johnson wouldnt have the balls now to go with the electorate.
He has locked the door firmly behind him and heaped schitt on the people outside.
His aim and those around him was not a positive one, of achieving power to "do good", but to fend off the tide of feeling to end austerity and a significant leap left-wards in mainstream politics.
Having achieved his Parliamentary aim - his objectives - ie using Brexit as a tool and a lever to power - is no longer relevant.
View attachment 18279

Orwell, amongst others, summons up the current British domestic political situation quite accurately:
View attachment 18280

The point being, the "oxygen" which fuels the fires of corruption and power will, by its very nature lead to more greed and lust for more power - ultimately the fires will become starved of oxygen and those who lived off it will become forgotten men - despised by those who were gullible and hood-winked enough to believe them.
He has conned his way in but what’s the way out?
 
If Hartlepool are vote in a Tory then it’s just a confirmation for me of how thick the electorate are in England

The problem is that we live in a gerontocracy, where a significant number of the electorate care more about how they feel than material reality. A guaranteed income and secure assets give you that luxury.

Until working age people can be mobilised to vote, we'll be doomed to have this dead hand in the wheel and that clown in no. 10.
 
The problem is that we live in a gerontocracy, where a significant number of the electorate care more about how they feel than material reality. A guaranteed income and secure assets give you that luxury.

Until working age people can be mobilised to vote, we'll be doomed to have this dead hand in the wheel and that clown in no. 10.
I think the subversive influence of the media fuels this, or the majority right wing media that is - ask any Conservative voter about Corbyn and you get a range of responses, such as, "he's a terrorist sympathiser", "he's a communist", or the generalised trope that "he's an incompetent buffoon".

The truth is that Corbyn was/is a conscience politician with some brilliant views on policy, but a bit of a dull persona - the rest of the misnomers about him have absolutely no basis in reality.

Modern UK politics is based on click-bait headlines and fictitious personas.
 
He wasn’t a competent or electable leader. Good constituency MP, good campaigner for causes that he believes in. Just not a leader.
 
I think the subversive influence of the media fuels this, or the majority right wing media that is - ask any Conservative voter about Corbyn and you get a range of responses, such as, "he's a terrorist sympathiser", "he's a communist", or the generalised trope that "he's an incompetent buffoon".

The truth is that Corbyn was/is a conscience politician with some brilliant views on policy, but a bit of a dull persona - the rest of the misnomers about him have absolutely no basis in reality.

Modern UK politics is based on click-bait headlines and fictitious personas.
I'd agree with most of that but not the dull persona bit about Corbyn. He has way more personality than that useless turd Starmer and Corbyn can laugh at himself too and I can't really imagine Starmer laughing at anything at all. Bloke is a robot.
 
"The truth is that Corbyn was/is a conscience politician with some brilliant views on policy, but a bit of a dull persona"

Has more persona than Starmer who I voted for by the way. Deeply disappointed in him.
 
Other than the verdict passed by the public?

He made some dreadful appointments to his inner cadre, Seamus Milne and co. These people had a first and foremost agenda of reversing Kinnock’s ousting of the far left from the party. Kinnock’s actions made the party electable. Reversing them is likely to have the reverse.

Now, I’m not against left wing policies, but you have to get elected first and then bring some in by a combination of stealth and consensus. Ultimately though, they have to be acceptable to a majority of the population. Studies have shown that about 75% of people agree on 3/4 of the issues. What doesn’t work is imposing the extreme 12.5% of the far left or far right. You might sneak them in, but they won’t work for long because people just don’t want them. Moreover, it is democratically wrong to try and do it. We are in a situation now where the Tories are made up of extremists, but they will ultimately bend to the public in order to retain power, or they will break.

Milne & co were putting ideology above pragmatism and what’s more they knew Jeremy wasn’t a leader, didn’t want to be leader and disrespected him by implementing their own strategies, some out of ideology, some out of spite and retribution. Jeremy wasn’t a leader. A leader would have nipped that in the bud.

There are many qualities required of a leader. One is bringing people together. In that I think he was not given a chance. Another is understanding optics, appearance and presentation. Not appreciating the Jewish issue, not reacting, not appearing to react, was a catastrophic failure of leadership. He abdicated his duty. Not forcefully condemning terrorists in interviews, just saying what some people wanted to hear was a dreadful error. He was concerned about condemning all violence. Laudable, but condemn each one at a time, when asked about them, one at a time, when each type is in the news and of concern. Don’t attempt to be consistent and equate all violence, even if that is true. This is politics.

Which brings me to the last failure. He is just not a politician. He couldn’t manoeuvre, manipulate.

Whatever you think of Blair and Iraq, he sold it to Parliament and to the country at the time to get what he wanted through Parliament. Unfortunately Corbyn was not Machiavellian enough while Milne & co were poundshop bolsheviks.

What most of us don’t realise until we infiltrate Conservative political circles, is that they see Politics as a game. For us on the left it is not a game, it is much more than that. It has real life consequences for people at the lower end of society, people we know and mix with. It is life or death sometimes, literally.

For Conservative politicians, they just don’t mix in such circles. It is about who you know, doing things for your people, each helping the others who are ‘our type of people’, but if they lose the game, they are still not in a life or death, misery and desperation situation. It is just time for another round of the game with new pieces. Meanwhile, there is nothing wrong with making a bit of money for oneself and ones friends.

To beat them, we have to play the game better. I actually think we should play it nasty.
 
Other than the verdict passed by the public?

He made some dreadful appointments to his inner cadre, Seamus Milne and co. These people had a first and foremost agenda of reversing Kinnock’s ousting of the far left from the party. Kinnock’s actions made the party electable. Reversing them is likely to have the reverse.

Now, I’m not against left wing policies, but you have to get elected first and then bring some in by a combination of stealth and consensus. Ultimately though, they have to be acceptable to a majority of the population. Studies have shown that about 75% of people agree on 3/4 of the issues. What doesn’t work is imposing the extreme 12.5% of the far left or far right. You might sneak them in, but they won’t work for long because people just don’t want them. Moreover, it is democratically wrong to try and do it. We are in a situation now where the Tories are made up of extremists, but they will ultimately bend to the public in order to retain power, or they will break.

Milne & co were putting ideology above pragmatism and what’s more they knew Jeremy wasn’t a leader, didn’t want to be leader and disrespected him by implementing their own strategies, some out of ideology, some out of spite and retribution. Jeremy wasn’t a leader. A leader would have nipped that in the bud.

There are many qualities required of a leader. One is bringing people together. In that I think he was not given a chance. Another is understanding optics, appearance and presentation. Not appreciating the Jewish issue, not reacting, not appearing to react, was a catastrophic failure of leadership. He abdicated his duty. Not forcefully condemning terrorists in interviews, just saying what some people wanted to hear was a dreadful error. He was concerned about condemning all violence. Laudable, but condemn each one at a time, when asked about them, one at a time, when each type is in the news and of concern. Don’t attempt to be consistent and equate all violence, even if that is true. This is politics.

Which brings me to the last failure. He is just not a politician. He couldn’t manoeuvre, manipulate.

Whatever you think of Blair and Iraq, he sold it to Parliament and to the country at the time to get what he wanted through Parliament. Unfortunately Corbyn was not Machiavellian enough while Milne & co were poundshop bolsheviks.

What most of us don’t realise until we infiltrate Conservative political circles, is that they see Politics as a game. For us on the left it is not a game, it is much more than that. It has real life consequences for people at the lower end of society, people we know and mix with. It is life or death sometimes, literally.

For Conservative politicians, they just don’t mix in such circles. It is about who you know, doing things for your people, each helping the others who are ‘our type of people’, but if they lose the game, they are still not in a life or death, misery and desperation situation. It is just time for another round of the game with new pieces. Meanwhile, there is nothing wrong with making a bit of money for oneself and ones friends.

To beat them, we have to play the game better. I actually think we should play it nasty.
I like you Lefty and I really enjoy reading your posts but I disagree completely with almost all of that.
 
Back
Top