Michael carrick into 6/1 second fav

JM14 said:
The odd loan makes sense but filling the squad full of them doesn’t. How can we ever build a squad capable of competing long term when we loose 3/4 key players every single summer?

A clubs like ours should be building a squad that will be here long term with a long term manager where we can sell players on for a profit to reinvest in the squad. Developing loan players for other clubs then sending them back every summer doesn’t benefit us at all. It’s very expensive and not sustainable for a club our size

We were 4/5 games into a season by the time we got some of our signings in this summer, that’s all signings with no pre season that could take months to get up to speed, we missed out on key positions because we have just so many positions where we needed players and not the funds or time to replace them all meaning we went into the season massively under prepared, it’s little surprise we struggled so much and the exact same thing will happen again next season
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Couldn't agree more, but I think this is a symptom of our churn of managers, each bringing a different playing style and consequent need to overhaul the squad in order to bring in players who can fit their preferred system.

Which is why we've gone for a DofF, to provide a degree of continuity.

The proof is in the pudding of course, but we'll only realise the benefit over two or three managerial appointments, maybe more.
 
newyddion said:
From when? We weren’t that far off from Woodgate.. if anything we’ve stagnated. Before that HUGE mistakes in recruitment have already been accepted and acknowledged. We can’t keep using that as a stick to beat the club with. 15 YEARS WE’VE BEEN IN DECLINE

Not bad for a club in decline Valdez, Traore, De Roon, Negredo.. etc etc

Things don’t always work out, but we have more goes than most
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Fair enough 15 years is too far, let’s talk more recently.
How did the club go from the premier league with those brilliant players mentioned to where we are now? That’s just as concerning for me.

Sacking Karanka
Agnew
Monk and the millions we allowed him to waste
Pulis and the millions he wasted
Woodgate
Relying on Warnock to save the club but then refusing to back him
Not replacing players under Wilder when we looked like we might be on the up at long last

All significant mistakes that Gibson made that will set us back for years to come
 
zzzzz said:
Exceptional times.

It's not every day you employ a Manager that EVERYONE was over the moon with to find out that he'd been constantly job begging elsewhere fully undermining the morale of the squad.

It's why we are where we are. And it's why the bedwetters are now drowning in their own pesh and clamouring for Gibson out.

It will pass. Thankfully most of us recognise it for what it is and remember the good times.

UTFB and Gibson!
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Other than a few rumours on here where is the evidence Wilder was job begging? After all this time I’m yet to see anything to confirm it
 
newyddion said:
I think Gibson is doing the best with what he has. I think Wilder was a bad egg and I don’t think his failings reflect those of our club. Yes, we need to progress, I believe that has always been the intention, but it does have to be within our means and sometimes you roll the dice and it doesn’t pay off.
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But he got £24 million in so we are in a healthy FFP position. Gibson and/or his Head of Football has okayed the sale of our only two technical / mobile midfielders and didn't do anything to replace them?

Even if they weren't 100% signings Wilder wanted, why would we think owning only three first team centre midfielders was a good idea for a gruelling championship season? Aren't we meant to have a squad continuity model now?
 
For reference:
I recently posted a researched chronology and narrative surrounding the sacking of Southgate / Strachan / Mowbray / Karanka / Monk / Pulis / Woodgate / Warnock / Wilder.
It is written to facilitate discussion without proffering a considered personal conclusion.
However, the trajectory since 2009 [other than one season in the Premiership] suggests a down-ward trend - lets not forget we`ve had 4 Managers in 3 years. It cant be ignored. We are an average Championship side aspiring to join the big league.

fmttmboro.com

Boro - "The Sack Race: From Southgate to Eternity" - long read. [r00fie1]

Lets take a look at the emotional ride from Southgate to eternity, based on selected News reports and other media. In the clear light of day.... [Edited Extracts] For the full articles please click on the links. ⚽...
fmttmboro.com fmttmboro.com


Final League Position by Season:

1665497409702.png
 
Jonny Ingbar said:
Couldn't agree more, but I think this is a symptom of our churn of managers, each bringing a different playing style and consequent need to overhaul the squad in order to bring in players who can fit their preferred system.

Which is why we've gone for a DofF, to provide a degree of continuity.

The proof is in the pudding of course, but we'll only realise the benefit over two or three managerial appointments, maybe more.
Click to expand...
Monk overhauled the squad from premier league to championship with over priced players

Pulis plugged the gaps with much the same
(He stumbled upon 5-3-2 though injuries)

Woodgate was installed to tread water
(He stumbled upon 5-3-2 though injuries)

Warnock brought in to steady the ship, then bargain buys
((He stumbled upon 5-3-2 when injuries forced his hand)

Wilder picked up the reins from Warnock
enjoyed a good start playing 5-3-2 with no injuries

Biggest investment in the squad since Pulis.. disappointing end to the season and record breaking bad start.
 
r00fie1 said:
For reference:
I recently posted a researched chronology and narrative surrounding the sacking of Southgate / Strachan / Mowbray / Karanka / Monk / Pulis / Woodgate / Warnock / Wilder.
It is written to facilitate discussion without proffering a considered personal conclusion.
However, the trajectory since 2009 [other than one season in the Premiership] suggests a down-ward trend - lets not forget we`ve had 4 Managers in 3 years. It cant be ignored. We are an average Championship side aspiring to join the big league.

fmttmboro.com

Boro - "The Sack Race: From Southgate to Eternity" - long read. [r00fie1]

Lets take a look at the emotional ride from Southgate to eternity, based on selected News reports and other media. In the clear light of day.... [Edited Extracts] For the full articles please click on the links. ⚽...
fmttmboro.com fmttmboro.com


Final League Position by Season:

View attachment 45701
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18th would be a consistent result with a view to finishing 7th next season?
 
JM14 said:
Sacking Karanka
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We backed him, then he threw his toys out of the pram when we couldn’t afford the players he wanted. Long term, financially they would have battered us.
JM14 said:
Agnew
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Wagner wouldn’t make the move. We stuck with what we could.
JM14 said:
Monk and the millions we allowed him to waste
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Over compensated and went all in
JM14 said:
Pulis and the millions he wasted
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We did the same again
JM14 said:
Woodgate
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Similar to Agnew, we went with what we could afford and who would take the job in the circumstances p.
JM14 said:
Relying on Warnock to save the club but then refusing to back him
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Warnock was the right move, we missed out on players due to financial restrictions.
JM14 said:
Not replacing players under Wilder when we looked like we might be on the up at long last
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We replaced a full team emphasis on a big ticket striker was misplaced.
JM14 said:
All significant mistakes that Gibson made that will set us back for years to come
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I think all decisions have been made with a view to progressing the club and protecting the club. Monk was a bad one and Wilder nearly was too.
 
newyddion said:
We backed him, then he threw his toys out of the pram when we couldn’t afford the players he wanted. Long term, financially they would have battered us.

Wagner wouldn’t make the move. We stuck with what we could.

Over compensated and went all in

We did the same again

Similar to Agnew, we went with what we could afford and who would take the job in the circumstances p.

Warnock was the right move, we missed out on players due to financial restrictions.

We replaced a full team emphasis on a big ticket striker was misplaced.

I think all decisions have been made with a view to progressing the club and protecting the club. Monk was a bad one and Wilder nearly was too.
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We didn’t back Karanka in the January transfer window when we had a good chance to stay up. We bought absolute rubbish nowhere near premier league quality, it’s no wonder he wasn’t happy.
And as a premier league club do you genuinely think we couldn’t get a manager better than Agnew?

It was this clubs best chance to be established in the premier league and we threw it away down to Gibsons poor decisions that year and have paid for it ever since
 
newyddion said:
18th would be a consistent result with a view to finishing 7th next season?
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Possibly?
We finished 7th last season - 5 points behind 6th place.
It doesnt make good reading I know.
Finishing 7th is no better than finishing 4th from bottom.
It means another season in the Championship.
:(
1665499311727.png
 
JM14 said:
We didn’t back Karanka in the January transfer window when we had a good chance to stay up. We bought absolute rubbish nowhere near premier league quality, it’s no wonder he wasn’t happy.
And as a premier league club do you genuinely think we couldn’t get a manager better than Agnew?

It was this clubs best chance to be established in the premier league and we threw it away down to Gibsons poor decisions that year and have paid for it ever since
Click to expand...
Let’s just say we spent £10m a piece on Jesé, Bojan & Snodgrass (we beat West Ham to his signature do we?) do they get us over the line? Jess and Borja take a massive dive and all three cripple us financially. Guedioura is a transfer phenomenon not sure what he offers, saw him outside on Nando’s once.. otherwise I would have believed he existed. Gestede would have been the Best Buy in our history if we’d have accepted £6m off Leeds.. Bamford was a good signing, but Devore one for the future.

We didn’t have enough money to satisfy our managers transfer needs, then we spent as much as we could on players we thought could make a difference.

Neither were right, regardless of the circumstances. Even with the benefit of hindsight.. where do you drop £16m in January to keep us up? We needed to gamble hard on low cost players.. much scarier than dropping £6m on Gestede.. but that would have to be done with the agreement of the manager (never gonna happen) and to fit their system of play.. beggars can’t be choosers!

The better manager than Agnew would have cost premier league money.. what manager fancies relegation straight from the off?
 
JM14 said:
We didn’t back Karanka in the January transfer window when we had a good chance to stay up. We bought absolute rubbish nowhere near premier league quality, it’s no wonder he wasn’t happy.
And as a premier league club do you genuinely think we couldn’t get a manager better than Agnew?

It was this clubs best chance to be established in the premier league and we threw it away down to Gibsons poor decisions that year and have paid for it ever since
Click to expand...

You are right
From memory we were doing ok til Jan - certainly didn't appear in danger of being relegated.
We played Man U away and, I think, came within a whisker of 3 points.
Then
We spent nothing - that to me, and many at the time, was the moment to invest. S
tay in the prem, at least 1 more season and reap the financial rewards.

The rest is history
 
Caesium137 said:
Yes the turnaround in performance since he went has been amazing. They were all definitely playing for the shirt, the fans and Gibson on Saturday...........
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we're rudderless right now, until we get someone at the helm it's going to be a bit of a mess
 
newyddion said:
Let’s just say we spent £10m a piece on Jesé, Bojan & Snodgrass (we beat West Ham to his signature do we?) do they get us over the line? Jess and Borja take a massive dive and all three cripple us financially. Guedioura is a transfer phenomenon not sure what he offers, saw him outside on Nando’s once.. otherwise I would have believed he existed. Gestede would have been the Best Buy in our history if we’d have accepted £6m off Leeds.. Bamford was a good signing, but Devore one for the future.

We didn’t have enough money to satisfy our managers transfer needs, then we spent as much as we could on players we thought could make a difference.

Neither were right, regardless of the circumstances. Even with the benefit of hindsight.. where do you drop £16m in January to keep us up? We needed to gamble hard on low cost players.. much scarier than dropping £6m on Gestede.. but that would have to be done with the agreement of the manager (never gonna happen) and to fit their system of play.. beggars can’t be choosers!

The better manager than Agnew would have cost premier league money.. what manager fancies relegation straight from the off?
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I could have understood the cost argument if we didn’t then go and blow 30 million the following summer plus whatever Monk cost us, If that was spend in the January we probably would have stayed up.

We definitely could have afforded a better manager than Agnew, but if we couldn’t then why sack Karanka? We would have stood a far better chance of staying up if he stayed but even if we went down he would have brought us back up
 
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