Can you admit that Southgate is doing a great job yet?

dontheking said:
I didn't even mention them other tournaments. Not worth mentioning for more reasons than one.
Think you all taking what I'm saying way too much to heart.
I'm just saying he's not a great manager. We would of got the euro final with that run we had and the players we had with anybody in charge. My opinion of course.
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We're not taking it to heart, we're just showing it up for the utterly clueless biased bilge that it is.
My opinion of course....
 
atypical_boro said:
Hmm, the strikers he had as his disposal though:

Shearer, Ferdinand, Sheringham, Wright, Fowler, Cole, Collymore.

Not a bad bunch.
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very true, he had a wealth up front, but then he had players like Anderton in the team, McManaman who was great at league level but rubbish on the left in an England shirt, still relied heavily on a Gazza who was beyond his prime. It certainly wasn't a bad first team, but I think it was a much better squad 5 years before and 5 years after
 
ForssAwakens said:
One of the greatest squads we’ve ever had give me a break

2002 our team was full of world class players

Seaman
Ashley cole
Rio ferdinand
Scholes
Owen

2010

Rio
Terry
Lampard
Gerrard
Rooney


There’s only Harry Kane and Phil foden. What the squad of today does have is is strength in depth and potnential wonderkids
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The 2002 squad also had trevor sinclair and Heskey too. We can all make comments to fit our own narratives. I agree the 2002 team was good though, we were so unlucky against brazil.
 
BoroMart said:
Southgate switched Foden and Rashford and they both score, yet he doesn't get credit for it.

Venables would have been slaughtered if social media existed in 96. "We won't get out the group" after a draw with Switzerland, "Why isn't he picking Redknap" before Scotland game, "First half was awful, we got lucky after that" against scotland, <silence> vs Holland, "Spain were far better for us we will get beat 4-0 if we play like that vs Germany". etc. etc.
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Southgate is getting credit for it though, literally all over this message board. Like I said on this post above there's no balance in any discussion on this board, he's either useless or brilliant. No manager is perfect, Southgate has done a great job so far but he's not perfect.

You've been downplaying Foden on here in defence of Southgate now you're downplaying Venables who coached at one of the biggest clubs in the world and is regarded as one of the best coaches by his ex players.

Its daft.
 
Uwefuchs said:
Don't know whether its nostalgia or fact but I don't feel like the standard of the top international teams is anywhere near what it used to be, look at the great Dutch teams in tournaments from the 80s and 90s, the same with Brazil and Germany.
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I think it's more that the minnows have caught up. There are players winning top european leagues and playing champions league football playing for teams like Senegal, United States, Japan, Canada, Ghana etc. These sides wouldn't have players of that technical ability and experience 15 years ago, the gap is smaller rather than the top sides going backwards.
 
Uwefuchs said:
Southgate is getting credit for it though, literally all over this message board.
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He generally gets as much disrespect as he does credit, it's disproportionate to what he has achieved. I blame the right wing social media agitators who repeatedly stick the knife in. The usual comments follow the line of these agitators about why doesn't he pick player x, or he's too defensive, or this is a golden generation, none of which have any real efficacy
 
BoroMart said:
He generally gets as much disrespect as he does credit, it's disproportionate to what he has achieved. I blame the right wing social media agitators who repeatedly stick the knife in. The usual comments follow the line of these agitators about why doesn't he pick player x, or he's too defensive, or this is a golden generation, none of which have any real efficacy
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This is the second post on this thread talking about right wing voters and first one was talking about little englanders. Oh yeah and we had someone insinuating the Southgate critics were racist yesterday as well.

Its totally unnecessary, I'm about as far from being a right wing, little englander as you can get. This is the type of stuff that just stifles any discussion and probably drives people away from the board as well. Not everything in life boils down to a culture war.
 
Glover_elbow said:
Certainly this group B has been a gift from the gods no quality at all England apart
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seriously? This is just another take on Southgate is the luckiest manager, if he beats them they're a poor side.

That Wales side only lost one game in qualifying, to Belgium. They drew the other. Iran finished above South Korea in qualifying, and the US are a decent team.
 
Disagreeing with support from Southgate is right wing?
Yikes.

If you want to talk about efficacy, I'll judge the efficaciousness of a tournament team on it's ability to win.

So far we've come up short.

He deserves plaudits for getting as far as he's got.

But he deserves examination and criticism when the team has a poor performance or fails to adapt in game (as happened in both the semi final of the Euros and the final of the World Cup).

God forbid there be some sort of critical thought as to what might be improved to perhaps make the team better next time.

We're all England fans, after all.
 
Uwefuchs said:
Its totally unnecessary, I'm about as far from being a right wing, little englander as you can get. This is the type of stuff that just stifles any discussion and probably drives people away from the board as well. Not everything in life boils down to a culture war.
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I'm not saying everyone that attacks southgate is from the right wing, but simply that right wing media outlets and their 'journalists' are pushing against Southgate and have for a couple of years. They don't want to see successful people with empathy. Many of the things I see posted by the loons at GBeebies, or from Morgan etc. are being repeated word for word on here, I hear the same comments at pubs, on on other social media from people.

The influence of social media 'influencers' cannot be ignored and a large number of people have been persuaded that he is a failure based on his ethics, character and culture. It's easy for you to say bringing this into the equation isn;t football, but that doesn't mean it isn't happening or isn't relevant, simply because you belief it isn't relevant to you. If it turns people off this board, then that's a pretty weak position for them, if they aren't afraid to discuss the concept with honesty.

It's not meant to 'stiffle a discussion', it's meant to be an honest interpretation of what I am witnessing. He isn't the first person to get this treatment. But he's the first England manager in the social media era.
 
Bernieslavenschin said:
Disagreeing with support from Southgate is right wing?
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NOT what I said. I said that right wing media has influenced the views on southgate. Not that 'disagreeing with southgate is right wing'. You need to learn to interpret a little better.

If you want to deny the reality that since the taking the knee stance, some people have booed, some have slated him personally, that right wing agitators have pushed a campaign to oust him as a snowflake, out of touch lefty etc., and that he has refused to buckle and give in to this abusive campaign. If you want to deny that reality, that's a circle for you to square, but it is reality.
 
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Bernieslavenschin said:
But he deserves examination and criticism when the team has a poor performance or fails to adapt in game (as happened in both the semi final of the Euros and the final of the World Cup).
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But, you can't win them all, we don't have the best squad in the world.

When you look back at the last WC semi, was that squad really a top 4 squad? NO

If you look back at the last euros, it was but then you need a bit of luck on the day. That team was lacking in experience compared to their Italian counterparts, no shame in losing a final. Getting there is in itself a form of success for a country that doesn't usually do so.

Now we have got out of a group, unbeaten, with 3 other teams ranked in teh top 20, no gimmes, yet we got out comfortably in the end. I'd see losing to Senegal as failure, we have too much quality and must find a way to make it count. After that France who have a much better squad than us, look likely, we would be second favourites, beating them would have to see southgate haters fall on their sword, but losing to them wouldn't see him as a failure against a better squad.
 
BoroMart said:
The influence of social media 'influencers' cannot be ignored and a large number of people have been persuaded that he is a failure based on his ethics, character and culture. It's easy for you to say bringing this into the equation isn;t football, but that doesn't mean it isn't happening or isn't relevant, simply because you belief it isn't relevant to you. If it turns people off this board, then that's a pretty weak position for them, if they aren't afraid to discuss the concept with honesty.
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You don't know that the Southgate critics on here are brainwashed by the right wing media either though. All I've seen on here is criticism about tactics and team selection, I haven't seen any of that linked to taking the knee or other social issues.

It just feels like its the easy option in a discussion, anyone that disagrees can be painted as a brexit voting, right wing nutcase. Its just a way of discrediting someone.

When someone brings politics into a discussion then fair enough but I don't understand why politics has to come into a discussion about football tactics.
 
Uwefuchs said:
look at the great Dutch teams in tournaments from the 80s and 90s, the same with Brazil and Germany
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The really great teams were all in the 70s. Well in my awestruck teenage eyes they were anyway....
Brazil
West Germany
Netherlands
Argentina
Peru 😉

Actually, Scotland also had a really good team in the 70s but didn't know how to manage a tournament.
 
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