Can you admit that Southgate is doing a great job yet?

Fun Fact:-

I’ll give the 66 team 2 goals because they won the World Cup but after 10 minutes today’s team would (ironically) be 4-2 up due to the speed of the modern game, the fitness levels, the technology, even down to the silly little vests they all wear during training under their shirts tracking everything little thing.

Same applies to any England team 10 / 15 / 20 years ago…even just make a dream team from the lot and put them against the current crop and they wouldn’t stand a chance, majority of them would just give up at half time and be straight down the boozer.

Football has changed so much but we have one of the best leagues in the world with lots of the best players competing against each other week in week out. As previously stated, lots of these world class players now turn out for Senegal, Costa Rica, Japan etc and every single team has a modern day superstar where in the past these teams didn’t even compete.

The only argument I’d accept is that in previous years we have undoubtedly had far far (FAR) better defenders but right now I’m so glad we don’t as imagine how ultra defensive and doing anything he can to avoid defeat Gareth Pulis would be then.

I’ll stick to my original point that (RIGHT NOW, in the current climate and against all of the other current great teams) squad for squad we could beat anyone but with Gareth Southgate in charge sadly we won’t as he’d always set up us to far to cautiously from the start and if they took the lead we (he) would never be able to come back.

Again, as previous posts have stated, please please please come back and have my life after we lift the World Cup and I’ll eat the most beautiful humble pie I’ve ever tasted in my life but it just won’t happen as we’ll always loose 1-0 or draw 1-1 through caution against better opposition under Southgate rather than just beat them 2-1 with a tactical and England team masterclass. Rinse repeat for the next few years with the classic hope that kills you and before you know it Foden, Grealish, Bellingham etc are 28, Gareth has finally gone having won nothing and the current very young inconsistent German team are world beaters.

Anyway, peace out…UTB and fingers crossed regardless for us winning the World Cup 👍🏻
 
p.s just for the record, despite my obvious concerns about Southgate…I have absolutely no doubt that under Michael Carrick England will win the World Cup in 2026 and Akpom will take home the Golden Boot 🙊 UTFB!!!
 
There’s a lot of this “such and such was a good manager, such and such isn’t” as though it’s basically in binary code.

With the vast majority of managers, these things don’t remain constant throughout their careers, except for a handful of exceptionally good ones. Most do well in a few jobs, badly in a few others, and one or two where opinion is split.

Southgate did a rubbish job at Boro, that won’t change even if he stays in charge of England for life and wins the next 6 world cups on the bounce.

Similarly, lots of England managers in the past have done very well at club level and shockingly badly for England.

Southgate has been a much better manager for England than Fabio Capello. To compare their records at club level would be laughable, though.

I don’t think anyone on this entire thread is saying Southgate is a “great” manager, just that he is doing a very good job in the role he’s currently in.
 
Uwefuchs said:
Alf Ramsey is clearly head and shoulders above the rest as he won the world cup.
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Did he win it though ? Let’s get serious about this. That ball wasn’t over the line and to this day the Germans laugh about it and at us saying, have it if you’re that desperate! 🤣
 
BoroMart said:
I haven't said if the critics on this board are brainwashed or otherwise, so I'm not sure what relevance that comment of yours has?

I have simply stated the fact that right wing agitators have had it in for southgate, a good place to start in this debate would be your agreement or disagreement on this. Happy to find examples to prove it if you do disagree.

I've stated that many of the comments I hear, are the same comments I see from these agitators. We all know how it works, some people buy into it, then repeat it ad nauseum to their mates at the pub and it grows legs and replicates and becomes "the truth".

The idea that we have the greatest squad ever is not true, it's quite clear where the gaps in quality are and its quite clear that our better technical players are largely inexperienced and will be better players in 2-4 years.

The idea that southgate is a failure despite breaking all records other than trophies won, is obviously ludicrous, because every other manager bar Alf must be a bigger failure. It's disingenuous to claim our second most successful manager is a failure but that is what we hear on here.

The idea that losing a final to Italy is somehow worse than a manager who lost to Iceland, or got our golden generation knocked out of the world cup, or failed to qualify for '94 is an example of confirmation bias, that bias was seeded somewhere.

Football and football supporters have ALWAYS been influenced by their socio-politico environment, people do not live in a bubble. We have been through an incredibly Machiavellian decade where social media has been used to manipulate and pollute the conversation, where it has been utilised to divide and conquer. To pretend otherwise and think that somehow, football and football fans are immune to this simply isn't true. Some (not all) fans have been polluted by a view of southgate as a lefty, a supporter of BLM and LGBQT+ rights, and I'm afraid for some people Southgate could win back to back trophies and there would still be excuses.

At no point have I talked the B...t word, and I have never said ALL anti-southgate fans are rightwing nutjobs, but, I bet you most of the hardcore right hate southgate. To deny the influence of media and the socio-political culture we live in, seems like the easy option, pretending that football supporters live in a bubble and don't get upset at players taking the knee, or waving a pride flag is disingenuous, even if you don't personally feel that way
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The media have always had it in for every manager including world cup winner Alf ramsey. Southgate has had it extremely easy compared to the dispicable personal attacks on sir bobby and Graham Taylor.

A lot of Boro fans remember he's tatical ineptitude here so it's not surprising there is some scepticism of his tactics. I don't think the origin of criticism on here is politically based
 
It's tricky because he's been England manager for the last three tournaments now, and during that time the same pool of players have been playing for him. The pool of players who've been playing for him largely weren't playing whilst Hodgson was in charge, mainly because Southgate of course has brought the youth through.

It's difficult to judge him, because how do we compare him with other managers? How do we know just how good this pool of players is, compared to the pool of players Hodgson had for example? Is it that we genuinely have one of the best pool of English players we've ever had, or is Southgate doing an amazing job and over-achieving?

It would be much easier to give a fairer analysis in say two years time at the Euros, if Southgate has left the job by then and we have a new manager in place. This manager may fail to get us out of the group stage, and we'll then all be looking back and thinking what a brilliant job Southgate did.
 
One thing Southgate deserves massive credit for is getting the team to play to its level although being generally cautious in the big games. Too many times in the past, our performances against the weaker teams were woeful and we would just about scrape through despite not playing well. Our style is generally much better now and we try and pass the ball. France will be a big test. Let’s hope we give them a decent game. There’s no reason why we can‘t beat them.
 
Ex Footy Legs said:
Did he win it though ? Let’s get serious about this. That ball wasn’t over the line and to this day the Germans laugh about it and at us saying, have it if you’re that desperate! 🤣
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If you are desperate you’d be laughing at a brick wall like the Germans over 66. Likewise England don’t make a meal of what happened in 2010.
 
Nano said:
Personally, I think he is scared against better teams. He won't attack for fear of being beaten but our attack is our strength. We're poor at the back so he overloads midfield and defence against a dangerous side. He has Kane doing deep which means no outlet, nothing sticks and the opposition gets unlimited tries until they break us down. He would be better using our strength and taking the game to the opposition. We might not win them all. We could even get hammered but if we win one, and it's a final then it's worth it and it's better than always limply falling to defeat.
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You make it sound like we've been played off the park the last two tournaments. We've lost a shootout and by a single goal in extra time. The sentence I've bolded is probably exactly Southgates justification for setting up the way he does.
 
dontheking said:
I didn't even mention them other tournaments. Not worth mentioning for more reasons than one.
Think you all taking what I'm saying way too much to heart.
I'm just saying he's not a great manager. We would of got the euro final with that run we had and the players we had with anybody in charge. My opinion of course.
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It is indeed your opinion, on that you are unquestionably correct. The rest of this post is twaddle however, from another new user unsurprisingly.

You didn't mention the other tournaments for one reason only and that is because they didn't fit your bait, I mean opinion.
 
atypical_boro said:
Well I was being a bit facetious, and you're right the wins over Panama and Iran won't count for much.

The appearances in the semis and final will though.
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I'd agree with Panama, about as good as Derby County at a push when they faced us.
While we were expected to beat Iran however, putting 6 times as many past them as Wales and USA combined is a different matter.
 
SuperStu said:
You make it sound like we've been played off the park the last two tournaments. We've lost a shootout and by a single goal in extra time. The sentence I've bolded is probably exactly Southgates justification for setting up the way he does.
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That sentence in bold is about playing attacking football. Attacking gives us a chance to score. I.e. if we attack we might win. The pragmatic (which is a fancy way of saying overly negative) means we won't win but we might not lose.

We could've beaten Croatia. They weren't great but I'll give some benefit of the doubt to Southgate because our expectations were lower then so confidence won't have been as high but a similar situation now would be different because we know our players are good enough to play attacking football.
 
MVBoro said:
One thing Southgate deserves massive credit for is getting the team to play to its level although being generally cautious in the big games. Too many times in the past, our performances against the weaker teams were woeful and we would just about scrape through despite not playing well. Our style is generally much better now and we try and pass the ball. France will be a big test. Let’s hope we give them a decent game. There’s no reason why we can‘t beat them.
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I think we'll struggle against Senegal. They can score goals, something we haven't really encountered yet. Not sure how we'll cope if we go behind.
 
MolteniArcore said:
No. We have beaten 2 pub teams and drawn against another. We also flattered Wales for 45 mins. I think we should more worried about Senegal than they will be about us.
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You're right Senagal are a good side who could cause us problems. Until England beat them, then they're obviously a pub team who have magically appeared at the World Cup by chance.
Just remember, whatever happens there will be some way you can be negative about England. You can do it!
 
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