A little bit more Mick Lynch...

He does speak a lot of sense. What I would say is he doesn't have to find solutions which government do. No that I support this government in any way, shape, or form. They still have to find solutions. You could, of course, argue that they aint even trying and that is a valid argument. You would then have to ask why? That one I don't know the answer to.
 
Laughing said:
He does speak a lot of sense. What I would say is he doesn't have to find solutions which government do. No that I support this government in any way, shape, or form. They still have to find solutions. You could, of course, argue that they aint even trying and that is a valid argument. You would then have to ask why? That one I don't know the answer to.
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Maybe a PM worth £750m is simply incapable of the empathy required to find such a solution?
 
This guy talks so much sense, and he's very switched on and calm.

He's right in what he says that the unions are helping each other, the work he's put in for rail, and his high profile has given others the bottle to take their lead, effectively this guy is putting up a fight for the whole working class/ public sector, which is great to see. The Tories must absolutely hate this guy.

It's better that it can come from a guy like this too, not affiliated to the Tory opposition/ Labour, as he can push much harder than Labour could. If Labour had to push that hard they would end up losing votes and we would end up with more Tory rule.

Good combination going on at the minute, with him battering the Tories and drumming up support from the side of the unions, and Labour battering the Tories and hoovering up votes to get an extremely powerful opposition.
 
They're not trying because it's the only thing left they have to attack Labour with. They, perhaps correctly, believe that the longer this goes on and the longer they can associate it with Labour through attack lines the polls will close in their favour.
 
Laughing said:
He does speak a lot of sense. What I would say is he doesn't have to find solutions which government do. No that I support this government in any way, shape, or form. They still have to find solutions. You could, of course, argue that they aint even trying and that is a valid argument. You would then have to ask why? That one I don't know the answer to.
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You know why, it's because it would take money out of their pockets, and give more power to their slaves (the working class).

The only way we will get a solution is if we start to redistribute the wealth, but to do that we can't have the Tories in power, and need something done about the right-wing press.
 
changingman said:
They're not trying because it's the only thing left they have to attack Labour with. They, perhaps correctly, believe that the longer this goes on and the longer they can associate it with Labour through attack lines the polls will close in their favour.
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100%

I actually think that Mick Lynch's underwhelming view of the opposition plays into Labour's strategy of representing the 'friendly left', to the traditional right wing voters.
 
Andy_W said:
You know why, it's because it would take money out of their pockets, and give more power to their slaves (the working class).

The only way we will get a solution is if we start to redistribute the wealth, but to do that we can't have the Tories in power, and need something done about the right-wing press.
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This may be true for the rmt but not for other public service folks. There isn't any profit from them.

Interestingly enough neither the rmt nor the rcn donate to labour.
 
Great video and he's right putting an emoji on the Internet isn't going to change anything.

We need to be on the ground and need to be more active, picket lines, marches etc... we need to do more
 
Uwefuchs said:
Great video and he's right putting an emoji on the Internet isn't going to change anything.

We need to be on the ground and need to be more active, picket lines, marches etc... we need to do more
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The key here is who are the ‘we’
The Tories have done a great job of getting more and more people with skin in the game.
Millions are in debt (mortgages et al) and have lots to lose if ithings go pear shaped.
They won’t, in general, put themselves in danger by going on the streets and risk getting arrested.
Poll tax was the seminal moment - the balance was the other way (or it felt like it) enough people had little to lose.

Mick talks for lots of us - just wonder how many are really prepared to do something.
 
Laughing said:
This may be true for the rmt but not for other public service folks. There isn't any profit from them.

Interestingly enough neither the rmt nor the rcn donate to labour.
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There's profit in the NHS for the increasingly outsourced services and agency staff.

And you have to remember that the very notion of the NHS is against the ideals of Thatcherism, which seems to be enjoying a huge resurgence amongst the Conservatives, including the PM.
 
1finny said:
The key here is who are the ‘we’
The Tories have done a great job of getting more and more people with skin in the game.
Millions are in debt (mortgages et al) and have lots to lose if ithings go pear shaped.
They won’t, in general, put themselves in danger by going on the streets and risk getting arrested.
Poll tax was the seminal moment - the balance was the other way (or it felt like it) enough people had little to lose.

Mick talks for lots of us - just wonder how many are really prepared to do something.
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I think everyone knows whether they are in the 'we' or not, most people seem to be anti Tory on here but like Lynch says posting about it on the Internet will change very little.
 
Absolutely brilliant bloke. Calm, reasoned and sensible.
I voted Tory last time out and can’t fault a word he says. He is on the money all of the time. He rips seasoned politicians to bits.
I like the fact he has subtle digs at labour because there is no doubt that this government has been pants but for a long time so has labour. There has been no real opposition, no threat.
I don’t agree with some the rises asked for, 19% in the case of nurses is obscene.
I do agree fully that conditions should atleast stay the same and so should the numbers on the workforce.
 
Facefuzz said:
Absolutely brilliant bloke. Calm, reasoned and sensible.
I voted Tory last time out and can’t fault a word he says. He is on the money all of the time. He rips seasoned politicians to bits.
I like the fact he has subtle digs at labour because there is no doubt that this government has been pants but for a long time so has labour. There has been no real opposition, no threat.
I don’t agree with some the rises asked for, 19% in the case of nurses is obscene.
I do agree fully that conditions should atleast stay the same and so should the numbers on the workforce.
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I'm sure the 19% is a starting point from a negotiating position.
 
Jonny Ingbar said:
There's profit in the NHS for the increasingly outsourced services and agency staff.

And you have to remember that the very notion of the NHS is against the ideals of Thatcherism, which seems to be enjoying a huge resurgence amongst the Conservatives, including the PM.
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I don't disagree. The issue with public sector pay is that it has been eroded over time. Any government would be slaughtered of they offered 19%. However promising 1.5% above inflation once we are out of recession and 5 our 6% today would probably do it.
 
Laughing said:
This may be true for the rmt but not for other public service folks. There isn't any profit from them.

Interestingly enough neither the rmt nor the rcn donate to labour.
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There's profit going out the back door to their suppliers and service providers etc, and we all know how they get their contracts, and that there are kickbacks from those receiving them.

I'm not an expert in unions and have never been in one, but at the minute it seems good that RMT and RCN don't donate to or affiliate with Labour, it means the Tories can get attacked from different sides which the Tories can't claim are on the same side. Zahawi actually tried to do that today on twitter and got absolutely mauled.

Not being affiliated should also give the workers some power against their employer's funding provider, whether that's Labour or the Tories managing that. We know Labour will do better for them, and traditionally have done, but they can still fall short.

I suppose a true union which is strong (like lynch) and not affiliated to any of the main parties could get more than a weak one which is affiliated, but I'd still rather they were all 100% on the same side mind. I don't think that is possible in the UK though, as the Tories win power too much and Labour may get less votes if they were too pally with the unions. Sometimes you can do more for someone when you're not on the exact same side, and sometimes playing on the same side doesn't get the best results in complex games with many aspects playing a part.
 
Laughing said:
I don't disagree. The issue with public sector pay is that it has been eroded over time. Any government would be slaughtered of they offered 19%. However promising 1.5% above inflation once we are out of recession and 5 our 6% today would probably do it.
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What is that 19% based on, is that the figure to catch up with inflation to the present day?

From looking at below and assuming a nurse for example is on about 30k, they look about 5% down based on 2021 levels, which is probably more like 17% based on now. Thats probably 10 years at 5% down mind.

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I think pay to match equivalent 2011 levels but only going up to 2020, pre covid, then add on another two years of 2% to get us to the present day. Then also add whatever they have lost between 2011-2021 as a lump sum.

So, that might work out as a 10% rise to cover up to end of 2023, plus a 15k lump sum (or 1.5k per year worked in the alst 10).

Then aim to catch inflation over the next 5 years. We will probably be on maybe 7% next year, but after that could be in deflation for a few years, so that may only end up 0-1% per year. Then from there link it to inflation.

Its not just pay though, it's working conditions too. Increasing staffing, bed numbers, means of exit to actually get patients out of the hospital (apparently this is a massive problem). Staff shouldn't be expected to work over 2 hours per shift, for free, clock them in and out and pay them overtime with a simple scheme which can be instantly approved by senior staff without added paperwork/ issues.
 
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Laughing said:
He does speak a lot of sense. What I would say is he doesn't have to find solutions which government do. No that I support this government in any way, shape, or form. They still have to find solutions. You could, of course, argue that they aint even trying and that is a valid argument. You would then have to ask why? That one I don't know the answer to.
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He's talking about a solution throughout that video. Redistribution, taking the wealth back that has been taken away over the last four decades.
 
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