Aj v Ngannou

B_G said:
For the first time in my life, I am starting to sway towards an AJ win if he ever does meet Fury. However, open to having my mind changed back if Fury turns it round against Usyk.

If Usyk beats Fury I there's a good chance the rematch doesn't happen. I'm not sure Fury has it in him to come back from a loss.

If Fury beats Usyk I think Usyk will want the rematch but getting Fury back in the ring will be a nightmare. It won't be something that happens quickly. Fury's history of honoring rematches isn't great. He would do everything possible to wriggle out of it.


It's not just the opponents he's beating but it is the manner that he is doing it. He looks a lot more compact. Head movement has improved. His shots look heavy. He's letting his hands go a bit more and looks far more confident. I think the l 18 months is exactly what he needed to get back to his best. I don't think he can ever beat Usyk but he definitely has a chance against Fury.
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agreed on both points, an Usyk win, certainly by KO would make it possible that there is no rematch. A close points win and Fury might want it and quick. Fury win, by whatever means and I think Usyk will want the rematch and won't mess about...the risk is of course that Fury retires after beating Usyk, just to vex AJ.

AJ, yes, he's confident in how he's boxing, absolutely letting his hands go, he was given KO of the year award last year, and he's probably got it wrapped up again for 2024 already. I think his change of trainer has really re-awakened him, clearly doing what he did in the first part of his career, but NOT doing what he did with Ruiz 1, go all in, once he's caught the the other guy. His career trajectory might have been very different if he had been patient against Ruiz in the first fight, and just picked his timing and caught Ruiz again, instead of wading in. He did of course go back into his shell and worry too much about getting caught, but now he's starting to worry other people, which is as it should be. He's heavy handed, good straight shots, and decent footwork, so he's a massive problem for anyone.
 
B_G said:
It's not just the opponents he's beating but it is the manner that he is doing it
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But fighting those types of opponents allows AJ to be more relaxed and free.

If he was fighting Usyk or Fury, there's no way he'd be as relaxed and confident.

It's like any sport. Against someone much weaker than you, you can afford to be a little free and open knowing the risk is there as you are clearly better than them.
 
Marvanelli said:
Amazing to read some many put weightage on that win for AJ!

I wouldn't expect anything less from a heavyweight boxing champ.

Fury was poor against Ngannou and AJ showed exactly how easy it was to beat him.

At the end of the day he's a UFC fighter...not a boxer.

As for AJ. In the form of his life? Who's he fought of late? Wallin, Helenius and Franklin? Come off it.

Usyk absolutely schooled him, twice, and it wouldn't surprise me if Fury did the same, although I doubt that fight ever happens.

Much like I doubt Fury v Usyk will ever happen.
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Why couldn't Fury do it then, if you wouldn't expect anything less from a HW boxing champ?

Who's Fury fought of late? Walloped by Ngannou, Chisora? Come off it.
 
Marvanelli said:
But fighting those types of opponents allows AJ to be more relaxed and free.

If he was fighting Usyk or Fury, there's no way he'd be as relaxed and confident.

It's like any sport. Against someone much weaker than you, you can afford to be a little free and open knowing the risk is there as you are clearly better than them.
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The problem was he'd lost a bit of confidence and wasn't let his hands go & he's got power to knock anyone out. So not using that wasn't great.

When he fought Usyk he tried to outbox him which was a crazy tactic given how naturally good Usyk is. Even still, the second fight was much closer. I'm sure if they fought again he'd be letting his hands go.

Fury isn't a heavy hitter, so he wouldn't be worried about what was coming back that much. He's a pretty big target too & he's gone from throwing 50 feints a round to 15. He's slowing down massively.

If you think AJ's opponents have been "weak" I'd love to know how you rate Fury's opponents 😅
 
In all fairness, you can't really criticise AJ's performance here. 1st round knockdown and made Ngannou look silly in the 2nd round.

Seeing Hearn do his usual promotion shtick and using this to now claim AJ is the best heavyweight is laughable though.

Fury's in a tight spot now if he actually still wants to box and isn't a shot fighter.
Facing 2 gruelling fights against Usyk, even if he wins I just don't see him coming out of them and going on to reign for any significant period of time.
If he loses, he's stuck trying to drum up interest for a rematch against Ngannou (which surely no-one wants to see), or going tail-between his legs to AJ.

AJ's promotion team has actually played a blinder here. All he has to do is not take big risks and wait for Usyk/Fury to play out.
 
Loop said:
When he fought Usyk he tried to outbox him which was a crazy tactic given how naturally good Usyk is. Even still, the second fight was much closer. I'm sure if they fought again he'd be letting his hands go.
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Usyk is a freak of nature no shame in losing to him. Look at his ridiculous amateur record as well as his pro record to get an idea of his pedigree.

Joshua did try and be more aggressive in the second fight and was better but it wasn’t nearly enough. It’s not just a case of letting his hands go, he’d get a hiding if he went out trying to windmill Usyk as he’s too fast. Just lost to a better boxer. He’ll never beat Usyk on points but would have a punchers chance of course if they met again.

I’ve always fancied Usyk to give Fury a hiding too if they ever meet. I suspect Fury knows this and will continue to think of inventive ways to dodge the fight.
 
Alzi said:
Usyk is a freak of nature no shame in losing to him. Look at his ridiculous amateur record as well as his pro record to get an idea of his pedigree.

Joshua did try and be more aggressive in the second fight and was better but it wasn’t nearly enough. It’s not just a case of letting his hands go, he’d get a hiding if he went out trying to windmill Usyk as he’s too fast. Just lost to a better boxer. He’ll never beat Usyk on points but would have a punchers chance of course if they met again.

I’ve always fancied Usyk to give Fury a hiding too if they ever meet. I suspect Fury knows this and will continue to think of inventive ways to dodge the fight.
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Yeah, I agree. Usyk is so skilled, he just knows how to win too. He's similar to Mayweather in how he's so adaptable.

I just think he's got the power to take him out, obviously he'd have to catch him, but he does have great timing and when he throws in bunches they're insanely effective. Maybe he's just got his number though.

I'm the same, for some reason people think Fury is just going to man handle Usyk. I fancy Usyk to win by stoppage.
 
Marvanelli said:
Fury's recent opponents have poor too. What's that got to do with the fact AJ's have been weak too?
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Nothing, he has just got himself in a tizzy over Fury and AJ as usual. Fury's opponents have been very poor but no one claimed Fury looked rejuvenated or back to his best when he put Chisora away because it didn't mean much.

AJ has done the right thing for his career and what I said he should have done after the 1st Usyk fight which was go away and rebuild his confidence just like Lennox did after his defeat to McCall. He now needs to fight someone decent and show that this is actually AJ 4.0 and not him simply knocking over some stiffs, until then I don't know how anyone can claim he is back to his best. He has always let his hands go against crap opponents, let's see if he does it when he's getting pinged in the face by someone like Usyk or Fury round after round.
 
It's actually quite entertaining when I think about criticisms of Wilder on here about how he never fought anyone and until he does then he can't be a top heavyweight but apparently you can be at your best and a top heavyweight by beating Ngannou, Wallin and Helenius(who Wilder put fast akip in 1 round).
 
Marvanelli said:
Fury's recent opponents have poor too. What's that got to do with the fact AJ's have been weak too?
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Nganou - not a boxer, had a punchers chance but AJ made sure that was never allowed to happen, something Fury failed to do
Wallin - he is a decent enough boxer, solid fundamentals and game. Only lost once prior to AJ. That was a dubious decision to Fury who again made a meal out of it. AJ dismantled him
Hellenius - had a promising early career, but that fell apart in recent years. He's top 20 boxer, just but just isn't able to take that next step into top ten. KOd
Franklin - borderline top 10 heavyweight, I'd put him just behind Dubois, Joyce etc. Never been only lost once before joshua and that was on points. He's hardly a bum.

These guy are all above all of Wilders defences other than Ortiz, they are also fundamentally better technical boxers than Wilder, and better than Chisora boxers Fury has fought recently. It's not like AJ has been fighting nightclub bouncers, part time boxers outside the top 20, he just hasn't had superfights. He's been working on new tactics and a new mentality, this is part of the journey
 
Chappy112 said:
It's actually quite entertaining when I think about criticisms of Wilder on here about how he never fought anyone and until he does then he can't be a top heavyweight but apparently you can be at your best and a top heavyweight by beating Ngannou, Wallin and Helenius(who Wilder put fast akip in 1 round).
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That's not really what people are saying......and as I stated above Joshua has beaten, even recently better boxers than Wilder defended against.

Stiverne x2
Molina
Duhaupas
Szpilka
Arreola
Washington
Ortiz x2

really other than Ortiz who had a heart defect and was 40, which of those are better than say Wallin for example?
 
BoroMart said:
That's not really what people are saying......and as I stated above Joshua has beaten, even recently better boxers than Wilder defended against.

Stiverne x2
Molina
Duhaupas
Szpilka
Arreola
Washington
Ortiz x2

really other than Ortiz who had a heart defect and was 40, which of those are better than say Wallin for example?
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Wallin is average, he is fairly durable but he has no power so he's never going to beat top 5 heavyweights. Ortiz x2, Duhaupas and Stiverne(1st fight) are better wins than Wallin.

I've said the same after Fury beat him too, Fury should never be losing a round against Wallin but Fury will do what Fury does and take his foot off the pedal when he doesn't perceive a threat, he will end up losing because of it one day. He can put on immaculate fights against Chisora(1st fight), Wlad, Whyte and Wilder, then get dropped by Pajkic or Cunningham the next fight because he's running into a shots like an idiot.
 
Marvanelli said:
Fury's recent opponents have poor too. What's that got to do with the fact AJ's have been weak too?
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You were throwing nothing but shade to AJ's opponents, but nothing to Fury. Which was pretty amusing given how poor they have been. Also mocking them, which is funny when AJ has destroyed the very same guys Fury struggled against.
 
Chappy112 said:
Nothing, he has just got himself in a tizzy over Fury and AJ as usual. Fury's opponents have been very poor but no one claimed Fury looked rejuvenated or back to his best when he put Chisora away because it didn't mean much.

AJ has done the right thing for his career and what I said he should have done after the 1st Usyk fight which was go away and rebuild his confidence just like Lennox did after his defeat to McCall. He now needs to fight someone decent and show that this is actually AJ 4.0 and not him simply knocking over some stiffs, until then I don't know how anyone can claim he is back to his best. He has always let his hands go against crap opponents, let's see if he does it when he's getting pinged in the face by someone like Usyk or Fury round after round.
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The point is the comparison between the same opponents, Fury has made a meal of them.

Who does he need to fight that is actually decent to you?

What's he done when he has fought someone who isn't crap?

How will Fury react when he's eating a big right hand.
 
Chappy112 said:
It's actually quite entertaining when I think about criticisms of Wilder on here about how he never fought anyone and until he does then he can't be a top heavyweight but apparently you can be at your best and a top heavyweight by beating Ngannou, Wallin and Helenius(who Wilder put fast akip in 1 round).
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Wilder was fighting nobodies in half empty stadiums. Check out their rankings.
 
Marvanelli said:
Because this thread is about AJ, not Fury.

Did it upset you I laughed at the level of AJ's recent opponents?

Looks like someone needs some thicker skin.
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It is, but plenty more have been mentioned as it adds context.

No, not in the slightest.

Good one 😁
 
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