Andy McDonald suspended over rally comments

Otto42 said:
That's what those have of the left have to wrestle with, in our system if you don't vote for the candidate who has the best chance of beating the Tory candidate you are accepting more Tory imho
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Yes, that's what we have, and it's why reforms to the voting system and the HoL aren't going to be happening in the near future.
 
coluka said:
I can see the tories hoping people posting on here and making snap decisions gets replicated around the country driving wedges through the electorate. If we get another tory government on the back of it, i hope you’ll be all proud to have inadvertently played your part. Words have consequences, he has a temporary suspension whilst an investigation takes place, one in which he is happy to assist, some on here should await the outcome before they judge the process.
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If we get another Tory government I hope Starmer supporters will be proud of the part they played.
 
Otto42 said:
I think you've answered the question, the organisation who has just murdered thousands of Israeli's uses it in that context. I accept that MacDonald is antisemitic and the speech isn't, but he could have said what he said without using that phrase, but then that wouldn't have been so controversial would it.

At the end of the day, there is right and wrong on both sides, by attending and speaking at a pro Palestine rally MacDonald is taking a side imho.
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But that makes no sense. McDonald used a part of the full phrase and added context around it to make what he was saying crystal clear.

It was a speech. The use of language matters. The way he used the phrase gave it impact.

Likud also use a variation on the phrase so does that make them antisemitic?
 
Scrote said:
But that makes no sense. McDonald used a part of the full phrase and added context around it to make what he was saying crystal clear.

It was a speech. The use of language matters. The way he used the phrase gave it impact.

Likud also use a variation on the phrase so does that make them antisemitic?
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I disagree with that, as has been mentioned earlier I think McDonald knew the impact his language would have. By suspending him Starmer is showing strong leadership imho, backed up by his speech this morning, when he has explained why he thinks the humanitarian pause rather than a ceasefire is the best course of action. Hopefully the members of the shadow cabinet who publicly still disagree with this analysis will see fit to resign. If I have to chose between Starmer and McDonald on this one, I'll choose the ex Director of Public Prosecutions and Human Rights Lawyer. Hopefully Labour MPs can get on with fighting the real enemy! Meanwhile I'll focus on us beating Exeter tonight!
 
thewanderer said:
This is my issue, barely a peep from him about anything for years unless it's a minor local planning application and then all sudden he got himself into a frenzy over a conflict 3000 miles away which were not involved in. Bizarre behaviour.
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You know I wouldn’t be too bothered about this sort of thing but as a Labour voter McDonald has really pixxed me off here.

On Saturday whilst he was in London spouting off virtuously about a conflict which by its nature is virtually impossible to resolve with the human condition being the way it is, I was at the Riverside along with thousands of other Boro fans giving a bag of groceries and a cash donation to the food bank collection.

Talk about priorities.
 
coluka said:
I can see the tories hoping people posting on here and making snap decisions gets replicated around the country driving wedges through the electorate. If we get another tory government on the back of it, i hope you’ll be all proud to have inadvertently played your part. Words have consequences, he has a temporary suspension whilst an investigation takes place, one in which he is happy to assist, some on here should await the outcome before they judge the process.
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What snap decision? For me, it's been a constant erosion of all the reasons I have for voting for Labour, like a slowly dripping tap emptying a water tank, until the only one left is to keep the Tories out. That may just be enough at election time, but I'm nowhere near as sure about that as I used to be. I'm sat typing this in absolute turmoil, I never thought I would even contemplate the day, where i wouldn't vote Labour.
 
HolgateCorner said:
You know I wouldn’t be too bothered about this sort of thing but as a Labour voter McDonald has really pixxed me off here.

On Saturday whilst he was in London spouting off virtuously about a conflict which by its nature is virtually impossible to resolve with the human condition being the way it is, I was at the Riverside along with thousands of other Boro fans giving a bag of groceries and a cash donation to the food bank collection.

Talk about priorities.
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So was I.
 
gregorgregorovich said:
I left around 2 years ago and I still get e mails asking for financial contributions and have refused them all. Notwithstanding that, I have continually said, that at the next election I would be voting for the Labour candidate in my constituency, despite all the concerns I have had about the direction those at the top of the Labour party are taking us.

When the Tories are sacking one of their MP's for calling for peace and now Labour are suspending one of theirs for doing exactly the same, where exactly are the dividing lines?

When the Labour leadership seems to be taking Suella Braverman's meaning of the words "from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free", and taking them totally out of context and seemingly ignoring the fact that McDonald said at the beginning of his speech "for Israelis and Palestinians", then I can no longer say that I will be voting labour at the next election.

Shame on you, the Labour leadership.
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To be fair labour havent sacked anyone for calling for a ceasefire
 
HolgateCorner said:
You know I wouldn’t be too bothered about this sort of thing but as a Labour voter McDonald has really pixxed me off here.

On Saturday whilst he was in London spouting off virtuously about a conflict which by its nature is virtually impossible to resolve with the human condition being the way it is, I was at the Riverside along with thousands of other Boro fans giving a bag of groceries and a cash donation to the food bank collection.

Talk about priorities.
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Didn't realise this speech was on Saturday, according to the post on Friday about the underpass, Andy was going to the Stoke match on Saturday!
 
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HolgateCorner said:
You know I wouldn’t be too bothered about this sort of thing but as a Labour voter McDonald has really pixxed me off here.

On Saturday whilst he was in London spouting off virtuously about a conflict which by its nature is virtually impossible to resolve with the human condition being the way it is, I was at the Riverside along with thousands of other Boro fans giving a bag of groceries and a cash donation to the food bank collection.

Talk about priorities.
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To be fair, Andy has supported the food bank at the Riverside countless times. As well as other types of community hub all over Boro.
He also raises the underlying causes of deprivation in Boro in Parliament and, again, it’s fairly often.
Your MP should speak put on all things of international, national and local importance.
 
Cat’s Lives said:
To be fair, Andy has supported the food bank at the Riverside countless times. As well as other types of community hub all over Boro.
He also raises the underlying causes of deprivation in Boro in Parliament and, again, it’s fairly often.
Your MP should speak put on all things of international, national and local importance.
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I’m not complaining about him asking for peace or a ceasefire, any normal citizen wants that, it shouldn’t even need to be said, it’s his naivety in getting involved in the way he has as discussed in posts above. That’s why he has ended up suspended and that’s fodder for the right wing media.

Despite what I’ve posted I do think he is a good MP for Middlesbrough.
 
JackG said:
If we get another Tory government I hope Starmer supporters will be proud of the part they played.
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It isn’t about being a Starmer supporter, it is about being a Labour supporter under the current system, Starmer has made the party more electable, than it has been since the tories came to power. The last thing the country needs is another tory government. A Starmer led Labour is the only viable option. Personally I’d like to do away with the 2 party system and have a workable form of proportional representation, so that whoever is in government they represent the broader values of the British people as a whole rather than current system does, but I appreciate I am probably a minority in that view.
 
HolgateCorner said:
You know I wouldn’t be too bothered about this sort of thing but as a Labour voter McDonald has really pixxed me off here.

On Saturday whilst he was in London spouting off virtuously about a conflict which by its nature is virtually impossible to resolve with the human condition being the way it is, I was at the Riverside along with thousands of other Boro fans giving a bag of groceries and a cash donation to the food bank collection.

Talk about priorities.
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Priorities. In one of the richest countries in the world where nobody need ever go hungry you think handing over a bag of groceries takes priority over trying to persuade our Western World leaders that a decades long siege in the middle east, where men, women and children on both sides are being brutally killed and where Palestinians are being dehumanised has to end?

Hunger in this country will never end as long as the left are continuously cowed into silence by the right wing press, but it seems you are happy to go along with that.
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
Priorities. In one of the richest countries in the world where nobody need ever go hungry you think handing over a bag of groceries takes priority over trying to persuade our Western World leaders that a decades long siege in the middle east, where men, women and children on both sides are being brutally killed and where Palestinians are being dehumanised has to end?

Hunger in this country will never end as long as the left are continuously cowed into silence by the right wing press, but it seems you are happy to go along with that.
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Fair point about priorities but I was talking about McDonalds ability to influence it versus local priorities.

On your point about hunger - no I’m not happy with it but at my age I’ve realised you have to live in the world as it is. I know people who struggle to make ends meet and yet still vote Tory because they believe propaganda rags like the Daily Mail.
 
HolgateCorner said:
On your point about hunger - no I’m not happy with it but at my age I’ve realised you have to live in the world as it is. I know people who struggle to make ends meet and yet still vote Tory because they believe propaganda rags like the Daily Mail.
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It's true that one voice won't change anything but the more people that show their displeasure, the more chance we have of changing minds. A senior MP is a big voice.
On your second point, you are being cowed into silence by that very same publication and you want all our Labour MP's to also be silenced. The right wing press are not going to change any time soon so we can either cower or speak out.
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
It's true that one voice won't change anything but the more people that show their displeasure, the more chance we have of changing minds. A senior MP is a big voice.
On your second point, you are being cowed into silence by that very same publication and you want all our Labour MP's to also be silenced. The right wing press are not going to change any time soon so we can either cower or speak out.
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That is one approach but recent experience would suggest that it simply gives the Tories an electoral advantage. Regardless of how anybody feels about Starmer as Labour leader he is the first one in 30 odd years to actively try and manage the right wing media.
 
HolgateCorner said:
That is one approach but recent experience would suggest that it simply gives the Tories an electoral advantage. Regardless of how anybody feels about Starmer as Labour leader he is the first one in 30 odd years to actively try and manage the right wing media.
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As a former Labour member I don't want him to manage the right wing press, I want him to stay true to Labour values.
 
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