Another mass shooting in the USA

Mfc79 said:
Making guns illegal would have very little impact on gun numbers across the US for decades. If anything gun sales rise rapidly every time the matter is discussed. To ban firearms and rid them from American culture would be 100+ year war. It would be as big of a fight as prohibition, if not bigger and sadly, not one any US government could win.
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Start by whacking up taxes on guns and ammunition, harder to buy etc . They don't want to its a big industry. As are arm sales for the UK we make billions selling arms to repulsive governments so they can kill people
 
jam69 said:
Start by whacking up taxes on guns and ammunition, harder to buy etc . They don't want to its a big industry. As are arm sales for the UK we make billions selling arms to repulsive governments so they can kill people
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Its a bit different selling guns to warlords and dictators (UK), than it is selling to Aunt Elsie while she's out getting the weekly shop (US).
 
buffaloboro said:
MD did you experience people talking about guns quite frequently? I know someone who moved to Texas as he saw it as more “ gun friendly” but I would not say , prior to his move , he was discussing them frequently.
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I also cant recall, in my 4 years of living there or 9 months of working there previously, having had a conversation about guns that was initiated by anyone other than me.

Admittedly I was mostly in NYC and San Francisco, but even when I ventured to some ultra conservative areas, and companies (SBG were a client for a while, as an example) then I can't recall those types of conversations.
 
This lad of course (being white) had "mental health issues", had he been Black or Asian they would be looking at how he was "radicalised". Perhaps they should look at the hate preaching from the likes of Tucker Carlson on Fox News spreading lies about "Great Replacement Theory"? If that was a preacher in a Mosque the FBI would be all over them
 
The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
Yeah that's why no one ever wants to live there, or visit there.

I'm just glad we live in this utopia where kids are not going hungry and the government dont act like a third world dictatorship passing billions to their mates whilst pleading poverty.
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Oh please. When the UK has shooter drills then you might have an argument. Just because people go there to enrich themselves doesn't change what a mess it is. Do you have kids?
 
ThePrisoner said:
Oh please. When the UK has shooter drills then you might have an argument. Just because people go there to enrich themselves doesn't change what a mess it is. Do you have kids?
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Dismissing an entire country as " backward sh!thole" because of one particular issue, particularly when you live in a country that has heaps of its own problems.

Yes I have a 10 month old daughter, although not sure of the relevance as to whether the US is a " backward sh!thole"
 
The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
Dismissing an entire country as " backward sh!thole" because of one particular issue, particularly when you live in a country that has heaps of its own problems.

Yes I have a 10 month old daughter, although not sure of the relevance as to whether the US is a " backward sh!thole"
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You seem blind to the fact that your remarks about kids going hungry and government passing billions to their mates applies just as much to the US as it does to UK, if not more.

I would be horrified if I lived in a place that has active shooter drills for children and many of whose politicians want more guns in more hands because they think (or at least say) that will make everyone safer. How is that anything other than socially backward?
 
ThePrisoner said:
You seem blind to the fact that your remarks about kids going hungry and government passing billions to their mates applies just as much to the US as it does to UK, if not more.

I would be horrified if I lived in a place that has active shooter drills for children and many of whose politicians want more guns in more hands because they think (or at least say) that will make everyone safer. How is that anything other than socially backward?
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I'm well aware of the social problems experienced in America by many American children, my point is that you don't live in a utopia (far from it) and to dismiss an entire country as a "backward sh!thole" is shortsighted at best.

Politicians don't, and shouldn't be used to represent someone's view on a country otherwise we're on very dangerous ground given the current evil lurking on the front bench of the HOC which is as horrific as anything in the US, just less honest and up front about their intentions.

I'm not saying the US is perfect, far from it, but it's certainly can't be written off as a " backward sh!thole"
 
dribble said:
They managed to arrest him, without any harm coming to him. If he had been an 18yr old black kid,would the outcome have been the same? I think probably not.
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Don't necessarily disagree but without doing any research on this topic I'd assume the vast majority of black people killed by Police, are killed by a regular police officer during the course of a 'normal' interaction a traffic stop, noise compliant etc. The police officer being relatively poorly trained & conditioned to expect a hostile response & provided with a lethal weapon, overreacts, shoots first & asks questions later.

A report of an active shooter is, even in the states, not a normal incident and I would expect that specialist officers respond that are highly trained & conditioned to de-escalate situations, they take charge, remain in control of themselves, aim to build a rapport with and hope to get the suspect to surrender rather than have to resort to lethal violence.

I'd suggest we should compare the outcomes in mass shootings in the same locale to see if white and black males are being treated differently.
 
newusername said:
Don't necessarily disagree but without doing any research on this topic I'd assume the vast majority of black people killed by Police, are killed by a regular police officer during the course of a 'normal' interaction a traffic stop, noise compliant etc. The police officer being relatively poorly trained & conditioned to expect a hostile response & provided with a lethal weapon, overreacts, shoots first & asks questions later.
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That would be fine if it weren't for the fact that white people are much less likely to be shot by the police, even in response to "minor crimes"

Look at the case of say Kyle Rittenhouse who shot dead two people and how he was treated by the police post arrest.
 
Centralscrutinizer said:
I'm working with an American at the moment, he's a decent bloke, but as I've seen before, get him talking about guns and he's nuts. He's had his grand daughter shooting already and his position is that the States with least guns have higher crime so it'd be better if more people were armed.
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While I obviously don't agree with that position, nor can I believe that changing the US gun control laws to those of the UK would reduce gun crime, at least not in the short to medium term.

The number of civilian-owned guns in the USA is greater than the number of people. They would not vanish because they suddenly became illegal. Crime may initially flourish because of any ban, which would be the death knell for the plan itself.

I don't know how you'd set about solving gun crime in the US: I wouldn't want to start from where they are. Maybe a gradual decrease in the power/range/calibre of guns that are legal?
 
The problem with banning guns is that you'll always have politicians who argue against any ban, like this comment from a crazed American politician in response to the proposed ban on handguns:-

“Nanny is confiscating their toys. It is like one of those vast Indian programmes of compulsory vasectomy.”

Edit:- No, that's a quote from our current Prime Minister not a politician from a " backward sh!thole" where "many of whose politicians want more guns in more hands because they think (or at least say) that will make everyone safer".
 
The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
That would be fine if it weren't for the fact that white people are much less likely to be shot by the police, even in response to "minor crimes"

Look at the case of say Kyle Rittenhouse who shot dead two people and how he was treated by the police post arrest.
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I think my point was you need to compare like with like,
- How the regular police respond to minor crimes/not even a crime and who ends up dead;
- How the tactical force respond to mass shootings and who ends up dead.
 
newusername said:
I think my point was you need to compare like with like,
- How the regular police respond to minor crimes/not even a crime and who ends up dead;
- How the tactical force respond to mass shootings and who ends up dead.
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Why, it's a fact that during ANY crime a black person (whether they're actually committing a crime or not, google Amadou Diallo for an example) is more likely to be shot dead by the police when they arrive at a crime scene than a white person irrespective of training and the like, and to suggest that "training" or "inexperience" is the reason black people end up dead at the hands of the police is glossing over the real problem, which is racism and the devaluing of black lives within the police force (and wider society).

​

 
The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
Why, it's a fact that during ANY crime a black person ... is more likely to be shot dead by the police when they arrive at a crime scene than a white person
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Agreed
The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
... irrespective of training and the like
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I don't know if that is the case or not.
The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
to suggest that "training" or "inexperience" is the reason black people end up dead at the hands of the police is glossing over the real problem, which is racism and the devaluing of black lives within the police force (and wider society).
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I'm really not.

There seems to be a widely held belief that the mass shooter was treated differently than if he'd been black.

Given the number of mass shootings (202 in 135 days this year, 693 last year, 600 the year before etc) in the US, it should be relatively easy to provide stats on the Police treatment of the perpetrator by race.

This article from March last year says there isn't a correlation between race & being apprehended alive by the Police following a mass shooting.

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www.washingtonpost.com
 
The figures can be skewed owing to the fact that a number of white shooters take their own lives before they are arrested.
 
buffaloboro said:
The US is a huge country state of New York is about the size of England And when i drive from LI to buffalo its nearly 480 miles away . Plus people don’t get much time off for holidays here and there’s a huge pressure not to take them. I’m not defending the lack of geographical awareness but it’s not like the whole of the U.K. has a handle on places.
For every person who makes a comment like that you’ll find some very bright people - for example , that’s why people come here for top level cancer care etc
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Oh I agree, there are plenty of bright people in the US but my god, there are as many dummies.
They could well have been Canadians that uttered the following words but I doubt it as I have never had
a Canadian ever suggest to my wife and I that we spoke very good English.

Here's some of the things that we overheard on our travels.
Paris Eiffel tower: Did they have mobile phone towers when they built this ?
Colosseum Rome: My god this is incredible, this place must be at least a hundred years old,
they must have had some insane concerts here.
Venice : My favourite and why I am telling the story in full.

I told my wife to go and stand on a bridge over a canal and that I would take her photo.
When she got there, she joined another couple who was standing there and she then posed for the photo. I noticed a gondola
approaching from behind her and so I held my hand up to suggest to hang on for a minute so that I could get the gondola in
the foreground of the photo

She burst out laughing and turned her back on me and went to the opposite side of the bridge.
I'm thinking to myself WTF is she doing? What on earth did she think my hand signal meant?
She turned back towards me and I held out my hands in a WTF sort of motion. The moment had passed, the gondola was now out
of screenshot and so I thought to myself F**k it, I'll take the photo anyhow. I raised the camera and lo and behold she now had her
face facing downwards. I'm now angry, real angry.

Eventually she looked towards me and I took the photo.
As we were approaching each other she again started to laugh uncontrollably.
WTF was that all about? WTF were you thinking?
She snuggled into me and started to tell me but could only get out " that American woman " before bursting into howls of laughter again.

I was getting angrier by the second but somehow managed to be laughing at the same time even though I still didn't have a clue WTF
was going on.

She at last managed to get it all out in one sentence , that American woman, she said "Oh my god, this is amazing, how on earth did they
manage to get all this water in amongst all these buildings without ruining the place ?
 
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