Archer - the Return

BoroMart said:
- LW - this is a role we go big for me. Greenwood, McGree's injury, Silvera, these have all had the odd moment, but really not delivered across the season. It's held us back. Get quality in this area and it will significantly improve us. Prefer to buy, but would even take a high quality loan.
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Couldn't agree more with this. Is the area I would target above all others budget wise.
 
BoroMart said:
- LW - this is a role we go big for me. Greenwood, McGree's injury, Silvera, these have all had the odd moment, but really not delivered across the season. It's held us back. Get quality in this area and it will significantly improve us. Prefer to buy, but would even take a high quality loan.
- 10 - we have Azaz, we have Gilbert. Ideal world we get Akpom back, if the numbers don't add up to a loan with agreed buy back if we get promoted, then I'd be happy to go for a young player whose ripped it up in League One, like Karamoko Dembele, 21 year old, 13 assists and 4 goals in League One, good ball carrier, wins fouls, lots of potential but can deliver already.
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I agree though with a different perspective. Azaz largely played on the left for Plymouth and looks better as a wide player than central. He has played central for us but that's because we sold both of our central options.

If we keep McGree and he stays fit then McGree and Azaz as options on the left are probably good enough but we do lack someone central in that case. Gilbert has had two good games but it's way too early to rely on him.

As Carrick doesn't really play with traditional wingers, someone who can play central and retain the ball under pressure may be a better option if we have McGree and Azaz as our wide left options. My preference would be someone like Zian Flemming who can play as a #10 or #9. He's more of an Akpom type in that he's a deep lying striker rather than someone like Azaz who's more of an attacking midfielder.

Fundamentally we need a massive upgrade on Greenwood and Silvera plus someone who can play as a #10 and someone who can play up front.

RF: Forss, Jones
#10: Dembele, Gilbert
LF: McGree, Azaz
CF: Latte Lath, Flemming

Loads of flexibility there. Flemming can play deep, Dembele can also play on the right, Forss can be 3rd choice CF, Azaz can play left or central.
 
Bruce said:
I agree though with a different perspective. Azaz largely played on the left for Plymouth and looks better as a wide player than central. He has played central for us but that's because we sold both of our central options.

If we keep McGree and he stays fit then McGree and Azaz as options on the left are probably good enough but we do lack someone central in that case. Gilbert has had two good games but it's way too early to rely on him.
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I hear you, but I see Azaz being better central, and flaoting around into pockets, he doesn't really have the pace out wide, but he does have quick feet. McGree, and Azaz, for me are good enough for play offs, but not to challenge higher, which should be our aim, with the play offs as a backup plan. I get what you say about not playing traditional wingers, although Jones is and Ramsey plays the inverted winger role well and Silvera was signed to play that pacey winger role. I think it's more curcumstances that have made us not play a proper winger on the left, than by design.

Bruce said:
Zian Flemming who can play as a #10 or #9.
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Yeah, he's a good shout. Robust, good ability, scores goals, experienced at this level. I just think Millwall would want 5m for him, but he isn't going to improve much from where he is, he's at the top end of our age limit, he'll be 26 at the start of the season. I prefer him as a 10 to a 9
 
BoroMart said:
I hear you, but I see Azaz being better central, and flaoting around into pockets, he doesn't really have the pace out wide, but he does have quick feet. McGree, and Azaz, for me are good enough for play offs, but not to challenge higher, which should be our aim, with the play offs as a backup plan. I get what you say about not playing traditional wingers, although Jones is and Ramsey plays the inverted winger role well and Silvera was signed to play that pacey winger role. I think it's more curcumstances that have made us not play a proper winger on the left, than by design.
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I think Carrick would play one "winger" but I doubt he would start with 2. If we were playing Jones on the right, I think a player like McGree is a better option on the left. If we were going to play Forss on the right then maybe a pacey winger on the left would be preferred if we had that option.

I think what's really important is that at least 2 of the 3 behind are proper goalscorers. (Goal scoring rate of 0.35+). So if Jones plays on the right, the other two need to be goalscorers. If Forss plays then you only need one of the no10 + LF to be goal scorers.

Last season we had:

Akpom (0.81)
Ramsey (0.68)
Watmore (0.53)
Forss (0.46)
Crooks (0.35)

covering those positions. There was almost always at least 2 of them playing in those 3 positions behind the striker.


This season Forss is the only player who has had a goal scoring rate over 0.35 from the players playing in those 3 positions. (Discounting Gilbert)

McGree (0.29)
Jones (0.28)
Azaz (0.26)
Silvera (0.26)
Greenwood (0.20)
Crooks (0.18)
Rogers (0.14)

haven't been ruthless enough and ultimately that's why we have scored less goals than we did last season,

The system we play, we are always going to be a bit leaky. We rely on outscoring our opponents. We need fire power. It does make for great viewing.
We have finished the season really well but we have relied massively on Lath's goals for those results. Fantastic that Lath has raised his game to that level. He's scored 8 goals in our last 6 games. Even the most optimistic fan would agree that's not sustainable. He's not going to score 61 league goals for us next season. We need more goals from behind him.
 
B_G said:
I think Carrick would play one "winger" but I doubt he would start with 2. If we were playing Jones on the right, I think a player like McGree is a better option on the left. If we were going to play Forss on the right then maybe a pacey winger on the left would be preferred if we had that option.
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He does seem to play a lopsided formation by preference.
Last season our width was provided by Giles. Smith had a decent range of crosses from deep.
McGree or Ramsey would cut in to provide room for Giles to overlap.
On the other side Forss would run down the right channel, often doing a pull back or pass across the box.

This season Carrick has had to improvise a lot due to injuries and the replacements not being good enough. Jones is happier as a traditional winger or wingback but with Forss missing, Carrick has had him playing the Forss role. Once Ayling got up to speed he started doing the Giles role on the opposite side of the pitch and turned into an assist machine. Meanwhile, none of our players on the left were able to perform their roles. This meant that our end of season charge was 90% based on Ayling, Jones and Latte Lath. Giles>Akpom turned into Ayling>Latte Lath,

I don't expect McGree to stay but if he does then my feeling is that if McGree and Azaz are the weakest members of our forward line, we're well set. We do need a couple of new forwards and they do need to be better than McGree and Azaz but they should be replacing Greenwood and Silvera. That's all a long way round of saying that we need 8 forwards and if the other six are better than McGree and Azaz that feels like a team that can challenge for the top 4.
 
B_G said:
I think Carrick would play one "winger" but I doubt he would start with 2. If we were playing Jones on the right, I think a player like McGree is a better option on the left. If we were going to play Forss on the right then maybe a pacey winger on the left would be preferred if we had that option.

I think what's really important is that at least 2 of the 3 behind are proper goalscorers. (Goal scoring rate of 0.35+). So if Jones plays on the right, the other two need to be goalscorers. If Forss plays then you only need one of the no10 + LF to be goal scorers.

Last season we had:

Akpom (0.81)
Ramsey (0.68)
Watmore (0.53)
Forss (0.46)
Crooks (0.35)

covering those positions. There was almost always at least 2 of them playing in those 3 positions behind the striker.


This season Forss is the only player who has had a goal scoring rate over 0.35 from the players playing in those 3 positions. (Discounting Gilbert)

McGree (0.29)
Jones (0.28)
Azaz (0.26)
Silvera (0.26)
Greenwood (0.20)
Crooks (0.18)
Rogers (0.14)

haven't been ruthless enough and ultimately that's why we have scored less goals than we did last season,

The system we play, we are always going to be a bit leaky. We rely on outscoring our opponents. We need fire power. It does make for great viewing.
We have finished the season really well but we have relied massively on Lath's goals for those results. Fantastic that Lath has raised his game to that level. He's scored 8 goals in our last 6 games. Even the most optimistic fan would agree that's not sustainable. He's not going to score 61 league goals for us next season. We need more goals from behind him.
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Same thoughts really, we aren't likely to play 2 out and out wingers at the same time, but we need a pacy left option for when Forss plays.

Also agree, and have talked before about how we need goals in those three behind the striker. We don't tend to have scoring defenders, or CMs, so we really need 4 of the 6 players that play behind the striker to have a good goal record. Jones has exceeded this season with 8, he's averaging, what about 4 a season? Forss will score. Azaz could get 10 in a season, not convinced any of the others will threaten double figures in the league, we need a bit more there.
 
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Bangura will give us something to look forward to on the left and the opposition won’t have a clue either . There’s lots to get excited about in expecting our best yr for long time she it comes to scoring goals
 
We will need well over 80 league goals to go up.
We don't currently have the players to do that.
We need quality goalscoring recruitment.

Latte Lath is a really sound element, Forss could chip in well from wide right.
Sadly I don't see Jones, McGree, Azaz, Gilbert (yet) as heavily contributing goals, decent squad players as they could be.
Silvera should be away.
Who knows whether Josh will get going again.

We need 3 quality forward signings to start at LF, at 10, and as strong competition for LL.
Relying on LL for 90 plus minutes, 46 plus times a season at full tilt is naive.

We probably can't afford to buy 3, but 2 purchases and a season long loan with commitment to buy on promotion should be feasible.
 
Budget wise, if the rumours are true (Hackney, Mcgree, on top of Rogers money) we will have a big war chest, so discounting big signings might be wrong given Carrick has openly stated what our ambition is
Love ELL, but we need an equal talent plus an upcoming talent at CF if we are to be up there... Indeedido is spot on.
 
9153mark said:
Budget wise, if the rumours are true (Hackney, Mcgree, on top of Rogers money) we will have a big war chest, so discounting big signings might be wrong given Carrick has openly stated what our ambition is
Love ELL, but we need an equal talent plus an upcoming talent at CF if we are to be up there... Indeedido is spot on.
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Another fan who has sold Hackney and mcgree before the club :unsure:
 
indeedido said:
We will need well over 80 league goals to go up.
We don't currently have the players to do that.
We need quality goalscoring recruitment.

Latte Lath is a really sound element, Forss could chip in well from wide right.
Sadly I don't see Jones, McGree, Azaz, Gilbert (yet) as heavily contributing goals, decent squad players as they could be.
Silvera should be away.
Who knows whether Josh will get going again.

We need 3 quality forward signings to start at LF, at 10, and as strong competition for LL.
Relying on LL for 90 plus minutes, 46 plus times a season at full tilt is naive.

We probably can't afford to buy 3, but 2 purchases and a season long loan with commitment to buy on promotion should be feasible.
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I disagree that Jones and Azaz wouldn’t get many goals. Jones got 8 in 35 appearances and Azaz got 11 this season - they both average about 1 goal in every 4 which equals double figures over a full season
 
Merlin said:
I disagree that Jones and Azaz wouldn’t get many goals. Jones got 8 in 35 appearances and Azaz got 11 this season - they both average about 1 goal in every 4 which equals double figures over a full season
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Is that enough though?
Let's say they played 40 games each and got 20 goals between them. That would be less than we've scored from those positions this season and a lot less than we scored last season from those positions.

Forss has got 7 plus Jones has 8 from that RF positions in their collective 43 starts. So if Jones played 40 matches and got 10, we would have 5 less from that position.

It's hard to break down how many goals we've had from the no10 position between McGree, Greenwood, Rogers and Azaz but it would be around 10 so we would be no better off if Azaz got 10 next season.

We have scored circa 25 goals from RF and no10 positions this season.

Last season we had 38 goals from Akpom and Forss alone from those positions plus 3 from Jones and a few more Ad Hoc so circa 41 goals.

We went from 41 goals from those 2 positions last season to 25 this season and that is where our overall deficit has come from. We have a similar amount of goals from LF and ST and throughout the rest of the team.

If Jones and Azaz played 40 games each next season and got 20 goals between in line with current rates we would lose goals, not gain them.
 
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Reading oneboro tonight -

Hackney is for the off and there could be a shock transfer going out the door, I wonder who he could be talking about? Lenihan?
 
New striker 25 ( if it’s archer )
Latte 25
Forss 15
Azaz 12
Jones 8
McGrea 8
Total 93
We’d get few goal elsewhere lot push us around 100 goal mark bangura may surprise us . Obviously the biggest test is acquiring another goal scorer .
 
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